Too influential/Not influential enough

TOO INFLUENTIAL:

Eddie Vedder - no knock against Eddie himself, but has there ever been a single voice so shamelessly lifted by a legion of second-rate hacks? Don't any of the millions of yahoos who modeled their entire careers on sounding like him have any sense of pride? or shame?

Whitney Houston - Lord, let her pestilential shadow pass from pop music soon! Because of her (and her acolyte, Mariah Carey) we've had to endure an entire generation of young singers who think vocal gymnastics are more important than an honest emotional expression. Enough! Imagine what Cristina Aguilera might be able to accomplish with that voice in a non-Whitney damaged landscape.

Counting Crows - made the world safe again for bland, generic, MOR-rockers. Bequeathed to the world Matchbox 20, Five For Fighting, Maroon 5, and Train - quite possibly my most despised mainstream band of the last decade. (Train, that is, not the Crows. Train managed to do the seemingly impossible feat of locating whatever might have been slightly interesting about the Crows and Matchbox 20, eliminated it, and made a career out of what was left.)

Green Day - Like Eddie Veddie, it's not all their fault, but they are responsible for all the doofs who would've been in hair metal bands in the 80s instead watering down the good name of "punk" into a toothless, highly marketable genre. The fact that Avril Lavigne gets called punk can ultimately be laid at Billie Joe's feet.

The Doors - Pretentious, somewhat silly poetic aspirations combined with naughtiness and dying young. A bad precedent.

Pavement - Unleashed an entire genre of people who thought lazy=cool. Yeah, yeah, if you're too hip to give a damn, why should anyone else?

They Might Be Giants - Just because I suspect they're somehow responsible for the Barenaked Ladies.

THE BENDS - A great album, and most of the bands who have based their careers on it have their good points, but geez, guys. Grow some testes.

NOT INFLUENTIAL ENOUGH:

George Harrison - massively important, but who has ever tried to sound like him? Gerry Rafferty and the Sleepy Jackson? An important vein that could easily be mined more than it has.

Love Tractor - Instrumental virtuousity in the service of catchy, melodic tunes. Seems like a great formula, so why does it only seem to exist in bluegrass anymore?

Captain Beefheart - he seems to have taken a lot more than his fair share of hits on this board recently, but at his best the Captain was able to combine genuine strangeness with great, memorable songs. Plenty of bands pick up on the strangeness, they just forget to bring any songs.

Ian McKaye & Ani Difranco - not necessarilly musically, but they do seem (I emphasize seem, since I don't really know enough to be able to say it's genuine or just a good cover story) to have worked out ways to navigate their own paths through the music business while maintaining high standards of musical, personal and business ethics.

too influential (or too much credit)

radiohead
strokes
kraftwerk
leadbelly
bb king
stevie wonder 80's/smoky late 70's
Dre
black flag


not influential enough (or too little credit)

scott walker
roy wood
de la soul
TV personalities
yardbirds
son house
beefheart (trout mask ESPECIALLY!)

MORE TOO INFLUENTIAL:

Jann Wenner/Rolling Stone - behind the curve since 1971. Turned its back on rock music right when it started getting interesting again (punk), declaring nothing good was happening in music and went starfucking in Hollywood instead. Yet somehow maintains its status as THE American music magazine, even though now it's imitating BLENDER. Wenner now manipulating the R&R Hall of Fame to ensure that it's HIS personal taste in music which gets forever enshrined as the official history of rock & roll.

ClearChannel, it's predecessors and associates - buy up every major radio station & concert venue in the country, then ruthlessly impose the same formats & playlists nationwide and inflate concert ticket prices beyond the reach of most fans.

NOT INFLUENTIAL ENOUGH:

Trouser Press/Option/Big Takeover/fanzines - Always were/are ahead of the curve, but only paid attention to by a handful of eggheads who annoy the kids by insisting to them "oh, well, if you like that song by the Killers, well, by God, you should be listening to the Cure because that's who they're ripping off," only to be greeted by eye rolling and a suggestion they return to the nursing home now.

Local community radio - anytime I complain about nothing being on the radio, I just need to tune in to KDHX, the local community radio station here in the Lou, to hear the most amazing variety of stuff probably EVER played on the radio - every volunteer host brings their own tastes to the party, making it the successor to the days when local disc jockeys drove the radio playlists. Every major city has one, ignored by the majority of its population.

"Velvet Underground. I still listen to and appreciate them but I've had enough of the influence. Past the archness, there really wasn't that much there to begin with."


Can you clarify? Does this statement mean that too many bands are influenced by the VU?

"Past the archness, there really wasn't that much there to begin with." What does this mean --- the banana cover? I'm a bit lost.

Some excellent points made in this post. Not only has Eddie Vedder punished us with his horrific singing but it has been compounded by a seemingly endless barrage of Vedder-like singers. Please make it stop. You can put Rage Against The Machine and their singer here too.

Ditto for Counting Crows, although, thankfully they've had a much lesser impact.

I suppose Whitney has vocal talent but I can't get past how pompous she is.

Regarding artists not influential enough or not given enough credit I certainly agree with Scott Walker. However, I don't think I could possibly agree anymore than with the view that Son House does not get enough credit. Even with it's terrible sound recording I still don't think I've heard anything more mesmerizing than Son House's early 1930 session containing parts 1 and 2 of My Black Mama, Preachin' The Blues and Dry Spell Blues along with Walkin' Blues, respectively. If only this material was presented by itself in some sort of proper album I think it would rank extremely high on my favorite/best albums list. I've only been able to find these songs on a Son House And Other Great Delta Blues Singers compilation though I've also seen them on a Son House only comp. as well like Preachin' The Blues.

Robert Johnson always receives the much deserved credit but was there anyone better than Son House?

The Doors are interesting case. To put it mildly, they aren't one of my favorite bands, but there's no denying they (or Morrison) influenced some great music that I like alot (Joy Division, Peter Perrett, Iggy, Patti Smith).

Because I don't play an instrument (I guess) I find stuff like that sort of fascinating. How someone can take one element or strand of music that exists and make something great out of it.

i just heard the doors in the airport and thought, well, at least they had fun playing with the harpsichord sound, kind of a haunted house tone, and were able to live off wht they were doing.

i think beefheart influenced the butthole surfers - there's a bit of "candy corn" in "going down to florida."
i forgot the name of a popular oklahoma band that brought rise to shallow, 'shoe gazing' music. they had a video on mtv and influenced bands to play long, slow, drawn out songs.

ESTER DRANG

the Okies?

"Trouser Press/Option/Big Takeover/fanzines - Always were/are ahead of the curve, but only paid attention to by a handful of eggheads who annoy the kids by insisting to them "oh, well, if you like that song by the Killers, well, by God, you should be listening to the Cure because that's who they're ripping off," only to be greeted by eye rolling and a suggestion they return to the nursing home now."

Goddamnit quit spying on me!

Goddamn kids with their MTV and artificial hearts.
If we wanted to see music videos we had to take drugs, listen to the album and close our eyes! Now get off my lawn and go and put "Trout Mask Replica" on like I told you!



Post Edited (02-14-06 13:17)

"i forgot the name of a popular oklahoma band that brought rise to shallow, 'shoe gazing' music. they had a video on mtv and influenced bands to play long, slow, drawn out songs."


Radial Spangle?
Chainsaw Kittens?
Flaming Lips?
Garth Brooks?

None of them really fit the description, but they're the only Oklahoma bands i can think of right now?

(Well, okay, the Lips might, but I like them and hope that's not who you meant.)



Post Edited (02-14-06 14:34)

>
>
> Radial Spangle?
> Chainsaw Kittens?
> Flaming Lips?
> Garth Brooks?
>
> None of them really fit the description, but they're the only
> Oklahoma bands i can think of right now?
>


first time i saw the lips (opening for doctors mob), we arrived quite late and only caught the last song (a zep cover, a really looooooong zep cover)...

seen em a couple times since, but have never really forgiven em.

i'll vote for the chainsaw kittens! damn, i just loooove that mother of the ancient birth song!!!

breno sez,"Love Tractor - Instrumental virtuousity in the service of catchy, melodic tunes. Seems like a great formula, so why does it only seem to exist in bluegrass anymore?" I'd say surf music does that. Here in LA there's obviously no shortage of it, and these guys may be "Guitar Player" types, but the rules of surf dictate that you must play fast, fun, energetic two-and-a-half-minute melodies.

Not influential enough?

"Metal Box"-era Pil
The Minutemen
Probly why I keep listening to 'em after all these years - they were just too singular and weird to be generally influential.

Too influential?

Led Zep & Black Sabbath - two bands I love (well, Oz-era Sabbath) that spawned, well, heavy metal.
NWA - An incredibly powerful album that changed the course of rap. Unfortunately.

I gave em a shout-out earlier, but here's their programming schedule. Listen online, dammit. You won't be sorry. (They are having a pledge drive this week, but they aren't too awfully annoying about it.)

[www.kdhx.org]

Right this moment (early Tuesday afternoon) the Rhythm Section, their excellent Soul/R&B/Funk show is on.

Too Influential:

Hank Williams. His twang was natural. An entire genre of hack was born in which the twang is an affect. The ongoing imitation is absurd and offensive.
Whitney Houston. Half of up-and-comers think it's better to sing 5 notes around the actual note. Let's just hope it's her lifestyle that's ultimately influential upon the new breed.
Strokes. A generecism that causes garage bands to go for the slick watered-down corporate angle rather than build from a base. Luckily, most of the acolytes have spun away.
Counting Crows. Egads. What shite.
Collective Soul. Soul-less. The ulitmate corporate-bland symbol?
Velvet Underground. I still listen to and appreciate them but I've had enough of the influence. Past the archness, there really wasn't that much there to begin with.
Me. Damn. When am I gonna shut up?
American Media. Always behind in music. Then, two companies own every television station, newspaper and radio station causing a socialist stranglehold on art which keeps our culture in the utilitarian dark ages. What's a great culture known for historically? Their art, not their work ethic.
Neil Young. OK, but actually a dilettante. And about as consistent as Lou Reed.
NIN. Pale imitators because the genre was too defined. But the trends about over.
Hip-Hop. The most narrowly defined pseudo-music of all time. And nobody held the torch of Public Enemy. All you need is a microphone, kids! It's just like American Idol: everybody thinks they're great. 99.9% have no discernible talent. Music has notes. Poetry/spoken-word is great - when it's good.

Not influential Enough:

Butthole Surfers. In this genre, the sky's the limit but in the pop world, things move along fast. Without the butts continuing to live in shambles, nobody steps into their shoes. At least not with wonderfully drastic results.
Starflyer 59. Not one of my favorites all in all but some terrific tracks and a terrific model for somebody to run with.
Richard Thompson. But then, we're talking extreme skill at a particualr instrument so the Al Dimeola's of the world don't really count here.
Led Zeppelin. Isn't it odd that legions tried and failed to copy the magic? They get the heavy part, the Frodo-lyrics part, but end up with cheese. My argument: they weren't ultimately influential, they're fame was. Not even to themselves. (Trying to listen to 'Walking into Clarksdale' once more. Ouch!)
Me
Hasil Adkins. I suppose Mountain Goat(s) are in this school.
Screamin' Jay Hawkins. I don't buy the thread connecting to Kiss, Gwar or Marilyn Manson.
College Radio. Bring it back on satellite!
Lou Reed. C'mon Lou, we're still rootin for ya.
Television. yeah, that's right, Television. Aside form Built to Spill, who's doing indie jam well?

Television. yeah, that's right, Television. Aside form Built to Spill, who's doing indie jam well?


Yo Lo Tengo

Yo La Tengo. Yeah, I can see a little in there but much more sonic/shoegaze than Television indie-style jam.
Television works the fretboard traditionally.
Ira goes for bends, swoops, petals and unconventional manipulations of the headstock, etc. ala Ranaldo, Sheilds.
Mind you, I prefer YLT to Television (under interrogation anyway).

(thnx 4 BJM)

Quote:

Counting Crows. Egads. What shite.

It's gratifying to see all the derision being poured out on these hacks. God, how I hate them.

I bought their first record on the strength of the Rolling Stone review where the damn fool was falling all over himself to call them the second coming of The Band. What an utter letdown.

Learning that that pud's dreadlocks were in reality hair extensions solidified my contempt.

They were also my grade-school age niece's favorite band (late 90's). She even got her parents to take her to the concert in Atlanta.

One word description: Hootie-esque (at least that guy doesn't wear a wig).

"Learning that that pud's dreadlocks were in reality hair extensions solidified my contempt."

Yet somehow that pud managed to shag both Jennifer Aniston and Mary Louise Parker. We live in a strange, strange world.

I picked up a copy of the first Counting Crows on the basis that "Produced by T Bone Burnett" had to that point never steered me wrong. I still remember the stunned disappointment and horror I felt as "Round Here" wasted several minutes of my life, and things got no better from there. Damn it, T Bone! Why????????? WHY?????????



Post Edited (02-14-06 18:03)

my san fran roommate and ohio buddy co wrote round here (he was with adam in an ur-CC called the himalayans) and hasn't worked a day since.

when we moved to hoboken together he used to go to bars and play the song on jukeboxes and tell a girl at the bar that he wrote it. his strategy was better than the song.

i've known adam for lo these many years and would prefer to swim in the arctic ocean than to see that band again (even though i snagged backstage passes for the stones coz of him) and he was/is an eminently likeable fellow; some of that goofy "what me?" comes off when he was a guest on stern; when he's around "press" he gets everything wrong and sounds bloated, egomaniacal.

re his hair: MOST of it's real! i think that hair plug thing could be an urban myth...

"Yet somehow that pud managed to shag both Jennifer Aniston and Mary Louise Parker. We live in a strange, strange world."

Ahhh yes ... There but for an utter lack of fame, money and success go I.