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Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops

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diskojoe
Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 11:56AM
The recent posts about Neil Bogart & how he flooded the world w/Cher & Kiss solo albums gave me a new idea for a thread. I know that all of you at some time in your misspent youth have trawled the bargain bins of record stores looking for any misplaced & forgotten gems. What I would like to know is what albums did you see the most in your search for Beauty & Truth in the bargain bins? For example, when I was a lad 30 yrs. ago & started to get into the Kinks, there were plenty o' copies of the Great Lost Kinks Album & Soap Opera in the bargain bin of my local Ann & Hope (or Ann & Hopeless). I also remember seeing plenty of copies of Muswell Hillbillies in the bargain bin of the downtown Boston Strawberries in the early '80s, as well as Jonathan Richman albums. The Kiss solo albums & the Sgt. Pepper's movie soundtrack were also perennial residents of the bargain bin.
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breno
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 12:10PM
In the 90s, the cd WEST COAST SHAKES by Balloon Guy turned up by the truckload in cut out bins and used record stores - massive quantities of the thing seemed to have produced, then dumped in the cut-outs with no promotion or press at all. I'm not sure I ever met anyone who ever actually heard it. My only guess was that their A&R person must've left Warners after it had been produced, but no one at the label cared anymore so it just went out into the world and died.

The two major label Penelope Houston albums in the late 90s - CUT YOU and TONGUE - were also pretty populous in the cut out bins, which sucks because they were pretty good albums and Penelope definitely deserved a better fate than that.
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:18PM
> I know that all of you at some time in your misspent youth
> have trawled the bargain bins of record stores looking for any
> misplaced & forgotten gems.

Heck, that's the story of my misspent adulthood too.

Mostly I shop the used CD stores, so for what it's worth:

Almost any mega-platinum seller is bound to become abundant in the used bins, about a year after its release. Alanis Morrisette's Jagged Little Pill, Live's Throwing Copper and Hootie & the Blowfish's Cracked Rear View can be easily found in the used CD shops, any day of the year, to name just three.

Same goes for all the teen-pop acts of the late '90s ... as well as any other big hit that follows some "hot" trend. Most trendy artists don't outlast the trend, of course.

The aforementioned Kiss solo albums still are plentiful in the bargain bins. Nice to know that some things never change.

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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:32PM
I remember seeing the Spin Doctors' hit album (whatever the hell it's called - the one with "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong" on it) in multiple copies all over our local used shops about 10 years ago. One day I counted 8 of them sitting in the CD bin at my local Half Price Books.

I live in Austin, and for a while you could scare up a used copy of Fastball's third album as easily as you could find lint in your pants pocket.
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:20PM
Delvin's Law of Used CD Shopping:

Any CD that you've been looking for in the used bins, diligently, without success, will become abundant the week after you finally break down and shell out for a new copy.
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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:29PM
You are absolutely right about this one. I've spent more money than I'd like online for a disk after weeks or even months of diligent searching in the local shops, only to have it turn up used and cheap a week after receipt. Happens all the time. The universe is a strange place.
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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:36PM
It seems that REM's Monster album is also an perennial in the used CD section of the stores I go to.
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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 03:40PM
And still is, in fact.
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breno
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:56PM
Toland wrote: "I've spent more money than I'd like online for a disk after weeks or even months of diligent searching in the local shops, only to have it turn up used and cheap a week after receipt."

The inverse of that is that the used CD that is in the rack for months and months that you consider buying every time you're there but always end up putting back will be gone the day you decide to go to the store specifically to buy it.

I'm sure that the used cd of KNIFE with the "Jump" ep by Aztec Camera that has been at Vintage Vinyl for the last three months will be gone if I go there at lunch today to pick it up.
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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 03:39PM
That has happened to me so many times it's made me sick over the years. My ex-wife used to tell me when I saw something in the shop but felt I shouldn't spend the money that day, "Pick it up now, you know it'll be gone when you come back for it." Every time, I'd scoff and say, "No worries, no one will want this [fill in the blank obscurity] but me." And every time she'd be right.

Now I scarf stuff up if it's something I've always wanted but have rarely seen in the used bins. I'm both more relieved and more broke this way.
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The [i]Least[/i] In Used CD Shops
June 22, 2007 01:31PM
On a related note: Most used CD shops tend to have very little inventory in hip-hop. The shop clerks generally will refuse to buy used hip-hop albums, unless they're currently hot-selling titles. They know that rap has a very short shelf life, and virtually no catalog life.

Certain rap albums may be widely regarded as "classics" — Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions, Eric B. & Rakim's Paid in Full, and De La Soul's 3 Feet High and Rising, for example — but that high esteem almost never translates into ongoing sales. All the hip-hop nation really cares about is what's hot right now.

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erikalbany
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 03:05PM
There was a period of time in the mid-'90s where every bin I investigated had a copy of Max Q, the Michael Hutchence/Ollie Olsen venture. To this day I proclaim that album "not half bad."
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MrFab
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 03:47PM
Ha, I had a prejudice against that Max Q album because I STILL see it. But I did finally hear a tune from it and, yeah, not bad.

And isn't another reason that hip-hop isnt widely carried is the (real or imagined) perception that it gets shoplifted alot? Some stores used to keep their hip-hop locked up while the rest was open, so that was the impression I got.

As a thrift-store/vinyl hound, I've often wished there was something we could do with all the Herb Albert, Neil Diamond, and Streisand records out there. Maybe Habitat for Humanity could build housing for the poor with 'em or sumthin..?
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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 03:58PM
Here in Austin the Streisand/Alpert/Diamond record sleeves are used to decorate the bathrooms of our various used CD and bookstores.

I worked at a Sound Warehouse in the early 90s and the policy was to assume the hip-hop section would get shoplifted often. Yes, it was racist and unfair. Especially once we discovered our shoplifting problem was heaviest in the rock/pop CDs.
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satchmykels
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 22, 2007 07:30PM
the peaches record store in omaha had a cut-out bin (50 cents apiece or 3 for a dollar) that must've been thirty feet long and three feet deep, but probably only contained a hundred or so different titles which were just scattered willy nilly throughout. everything i pulled out of that bin was absolute crap with one glaring exception - the saints second album, eternally yours. everytime i went there with a different person, i insisted they buy a copy, but when peaches eventually closed shop, there were still dozens and dozens left. *sigh*, most likely lining a landfill somewhere...

now that i think about it, they had hundreds of skyhooks albums, too, so make that two exceptions. one glaring. hehe
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Delvin
Re: Albums Shoplifted The Most From Music Stores
June 23, 2007 06:44AM
Completely agree with Toland. If I find a real gem in the used/cutout bin, I scarf it up without hesitation ... because if I don't, it'll be a decade or more before I ever find it again.

My comment about hip-hop's shelf life and catalog life is a reflection of the comments I've heard from clerks at used CD shops ... practically all of whom, in this city, are on a first-name basis with me.

I haven't heard any insights as to what gets shoplifted the most ... but one of the music stores in this town has an enormous display board of Polaroid photos of people. The text on the board explains thusly:

THE HALL OF SHOPLIFTERS!

If we catch you shoplifting in this store, we will chase you, catch you, give you a beatdown if necessary, and have you arrested. We will phone your parents, spouse, boyfriend/girlfriend or whoever, and tell them why you've been arrested. We will press charges against you, and we will show up in court to make sure you're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And we will bar you from this store for the rest of your life.

And just in case that's not enough, we will take your photo and post it on this board, along with your full name, so that our customers can see your photo and laugh at your dumb ass, and your friends can see what a thieving rat you are.

Stealing is wrong! We don't care what your hippie parents taught you!

Anyway ... There isn't a preponderance of photos of black people on that display. (Then again, it's rare to find a preponderance of black people anywhere in Colorado.)
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skook
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 24, 2007 01:24AM
Pablo Cruise albums. I organized all of their albums one time at a huge St. Vincent's store. Had to be at least 30 copies of them. I also put all of the copies of Bonfire of the Vanities together at a library book sale. I announced each copy as I put it in the pile. At least 50 copies that time.
I was thinking about buying all the Bonfire paperbacks and making a real bonfire with them.
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Paganizer
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 24, 2007 06:35AM
...but that would have been too vain, so you didn't?

Aside from the obvious multi-million sellers that people tout and then embarassingly realise the band they loved actually sucked (Jagged Little Pill, Cracked Rearview Mirror, that Shannon Hoon album, any rap-of-the-minute),
I remember always seeing Died Pretty's Doughboy Hollow, Social D, and Bryan Ferry.



Post Edited (06-27-07 17:40)
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MrFab
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 26, 2018 08:34PM
Quote

I also remember seeing plenty of copies of Muswell Hillbillies in the bargain bin of the downtown Boston Strawberries in the early '80s, as well as Jonathan Richman albums.

i used to pick up used J Richman albums all the time back in the day - the music was often good-to-great...except when it was a little too goofy even for me. But hey, they were only $3-$4, so why not? About what I paid for the used CD of "Its Time For" now going for...$67-$100?!? Vinyl going for $50. Even cassette versions are thru the roof:

[www.discogs.com]

What the hell, is JoJo famous now or sumthin?!

Gotta wonder how much has changed since this thread was started a decade ago. I also used to see Sugar CDs in the bargain bins. I bet their stock has risen.

(Looks it up) Actually, no. Still a bargain!
[www.discogs.com]

But yeah, as much as I love "It's Time For", that sweet sound of 'cha-ching' is calling to me...



Post Edited (02-27-18 16:01)
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steevee
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 27, 2018 04:05AM
I bought a copy of JONATHAN RICHMAN SINGS! for $1 in a mall record store in Connecticut when I was in high school, on LP of course.
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MrFab
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 27, 2018 04:53AM
Quote

We should revisit this in another 10 years.

By which time, I shall have sold off all my Jonathan Richman albums, now worth more than Apple stock, and will be comfortably retired.

(And of course, I'll be singing: "If I were a Richman... deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum...")



Post Edited (02-27-18 15:59)
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Post-Punk Monk
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 27, 2018 12:12PM
Mr Fab - Damnit! Now I've got "If I Were A Rich Man" in my head. I'll be singing it all day now long - complete with hand gestures!



Post Edited (02-28-18 08:19)

Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

[postpunkmonk.com]
For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®
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dj45rpm
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 28, 2018 01:30AM
>>otta wonder how much has changed since this thread was started a decade ago. I also used to see Sugar CDs in the bargain bins. I bet their stock has risen.

(Looks it up) Actually, no. Still a bargain!<<

Well, considering they've been superseded by Merge's superlative reissues...

>>On a related note: Most used CD shops tend to have very little inventory in hip-hop. The shop clerks generally will refuse to buy used hip-hop albums, unless they're currently hot-selling titles. They know that rap has a very short shelf life, and virtually no catalog life.<<

Is this still true? Probably depends on whether you're trying to sell Kayne's new release or that Arrested Development CD from a few centuries ago...
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steevee
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 28, 2018 04:10AM
If you look at some hip-hop discussion forums, there are people willing to spend $30 on a Nas 12" that has one rare remix, or an unknown rapper who was produced by Pete Rock or Diamond D or once had a feature on a Wu-Tang member's song . I realize the vinyl market is different from the CD market, but I have the impression there's a very real audience of collectors who totally fetishize '90s hip-hop there. That's different from saying anyone will buy a used Flo Rida or Chingy CD.
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ratboy
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 24, 2007 11:25AM
I remember seeing lots of Joan Armatrading and lots of Thin Lizzy.

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Aitch
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 25, 2007 02:42AM
In the vinyl days it was always Slayed Alive.
Now I keep finding The Shock Poets, Tripping Daisy and Bullyrag.
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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 25, 2007 02:13PM
Back in the late '70s, I remember seeing an album in the cut out bins of this bald guy wearing aviator shades named ZWOL or something like that.

In re: skook's Bonfire of the Vanities story, I remember talking to a used book store owner who said that he had so many copies of the paperback version of the Pentagon Papers that he was throwing them away.
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Jermoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 14, 2007 12:25AM
CD era, I used to notice a freakish amount of Too Much Joy & Adam Schmitt- not so much anymore. I always liked both acts, so I tried to pick up copies to distribute randomly. Then one of the recipients told me Too Much Joy sounded like blink-182. Ouch.

Without a doubt, however, my all-time #1 Atlanta/Athens, GA bargain bin standby will always be 10,000 Maniacs' "In My Tribe".

As for vinyl, I've probably flipped through a gold record's worth of Honeymoon Suite's debut, Herbie Hancock's "Future Shock" and John Fogerty's "Centerfield".
In 1983 or so I picked up a cut-out copy of Ian Dury & the Blockheads' "Laughter" as part of a 10 for $1 deal (based upon the cover and the fact it was on Stiff, which my 13-yr. old mind vaguely associated with Elvis Costello), so these things have a way of working out for the best...
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WalkerBen
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
August 06, 2024 07:28AM
As they say, everything new is well forgotten old, that is, after a while, someone will still release a song or melody very similar to the original and will present it as their unique vision, and only old-timers or experienced musicians will be able to recognize it.

Patience - this is the key to success
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
August 06, 2024 09:14AM
> As they say, everything new is well forgotten old, that is,
> after a while, someone will still release a song or melody
> very similar to the original and will present it as their
> unique vision, and only old-timers or experienced musicians
> will be able to recognize it.

Or that "very similar" part of the song is the result of a sample. (Does that still happen very much in music? Or have the laws about "fair use" driven the costs of samples too high for most hip-hop and techno artists to keep using them?)

Or some TV show will feature a long-overlooked song in an episode, stirring up interest in the song and the artist. Kate Bush's "Running Up That Hill" is the prime example, at least recently. I used to see Hounds of Love and The Whole Story in the used CD racks frequently, until Stranger Things brought that song back to the public's attention. "Goo Goo Muck" by The Cramps also comes to mind; I used to see the Bad Music for Bad People comp in the used CD racks a lot too, until Wednesday Addams had her moment on the dance floor.
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rebelwithoutaclue
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 25, 2007 08:35PM
i was born in 1967 and i did a huge amount of my bargain bin buying in the years 1982-1984. i remember in ny there was something called the nice price which was more then bargain bins and had quite a good selection.
they were priced 399 or 3 for 10 bucks . i remember buying a lot of the less succesfull dylan albums . shot of love,hard rain,sreet legal. springstgeens first 2 albums as well as billy joels. the clashes first album. some bozz scaggs , steve miller bunch of clapton late 70s early 80s stuff.
some elvis costello, prince cause they put out so many albums and some werent that succesful sales wise. graham parker was always available.
the bargain bins that were 3 bucks seemed to always have somewhere in england by george harrison and i seem to vaguely remember the altantic rhythm section and pablo cruise being there often.l
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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
June 25, 2007 08:58PM
The "Nice Price" was Columbia Record's discounting of then-recent catalog albums like the ones that rebelwithoutaclue described, the Dylans, the Billy Joels & the Springsteens.
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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 06, 2007 05:18PM
I was listening to the Beach Boys' version of Rock 'n Roll music at a pizza place today when I was reminded that two Beach Boys albums that were mainstays in the bargain bins back in the day were 15 Big Ones & Love You
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skook
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 09, 2007 06:17AM
Oh yeah, I did find a bunch of stuff that made it worth it this week. Mungo Jerry, The Cryan' Shames, and an Animals 1983 45 RPM of The Night b/w No John No, and Jack Lemmon album among about 30 others.
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dj45rpm
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 06, 2007 06:57PM
Chumbawamba's "Tubthumping" .
Sugar, especially the "File Under Easy Listening" CD (which sucks, since they deserved a better fate). Bob Mould solo releases as well.
Mecca Normal (ditto).
Barbara Manning: anything after the first 2 (and that includes the SF Seals)
Later releases from That Petrol Emotion.
And all the "alternative"/"new punk" bands that got signed and DIDN'T get that seemingly all-important promotional push.

Of course, let's not forget all the former bargin-bin staples that are now going for $ on eBay (Leatherface's "Mush", the New Monkees (!), various obscure 80s metal bands, etc.)

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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 06, 2007 07:08PM
I don't know what record stores you frequent, but I've never seen any Barbara Manning albums in the bargain bins. I wish I had.

I love FU:EL. It's not as consistent as the previous Sugar records, but the highs are really high.
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madisdadi
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 07, 2007 12:57PM
Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins:

Usually anything I bought fresh off the racks, full price, 2 months before I walked into the used store.
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Neyrono
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
April 21, 2024 06:15PM
I've also noticed that there must be a law against having a jazz section in your used record store unless you have at least half-a-dozen Jean-Luc Ponty records on hand.
And I recommend nice service for all gamers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2024 06:16PM by Neyrono.
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skook
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 09, 2007 06:10AM
I spend a lot of time going through the bins at the thrift stores. Johnny Mathis, Ferrante & Teicher, The Firestone Christmas Album, Boz Scaggs Silk Degrees, all the Pablo Cruise albums, and Loverboy all seem to follow me from store to store.
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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
July 13, 2007 02:16PM
I recently remembered two more albums that populated the bargain bins back in the day: 1. The Byrds (1973 reunion album) 2. The Souther-Hillman-Furey Band
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Aitch
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 27, 2018 04:06AM
We should revisit this in another 10 years.
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 28, 2018 03:07PM
> Is this still true? Probably depends on whether you're trying to sell Kayne's new release
> or that Arrested Development CD from a few centuries ago...

Kanye's latest release will jump out of the used CD bin and into some buyer's hand, leaving the Arrested Development CDs behind year after year.

> I realize the vinyl market is different from the CD market, but I have the impression
> there's a very real audience of collectors who totally fetishize '90s hip-hop there.

Oh, I'm sure there is. Just as I scour the used vinyl bins regularly, around Seattle, for '80s vinyl artifacts that I missed when they were new.
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steevee
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
February 28, 2018 06:22PM
BTW, Kanye's latest release is not even available for commercial download, much less CDs. It can only be heard through streaming services and can't be purchased, although I'm sure one can find illegal downloads if you look hard enough.
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HollowbodyKay
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 01, 2018 07:59AM


If you're mulling over the idea of opening a used record store, I feel it is incumbent upon me to let you know that most states will refuse to issue a business licence to you unless you can prove you've got at least several dozen copies of this album on hand.

Happily ... they're everywhere. So stock up!
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Michael Toland
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 01, 2018 12:40PM
I've also noticed that there must be a law against having a jazz section in your used record store unless you have at least half-a-dozen Jean-Luc Ponty records on hand.
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Paganizer
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 10, 2018 07:09AM
Sort of. Sometimes there never was an analog master.

Sounds like diskojoe, however, was talking about the plastic composition. There are vids where Third Man (men?) go into detail about their donuts.

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diskojoe
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 01, 2018 07:20PM
I wonder who is the biggest sucker, the person who buys a used copy of Frampton Comes Alive or the person who buys a new copyone $30 or so dollars?

Another question I have is how is the vinyl quality on the reissues? I believe that one reason why vinyl went away for a while was the horrible quality of the vinyl used in the 70s-80s, especially during the energy crises.
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HollowbodyKay
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 18, 2018 08:00PM
Quote

I wonder who is the biggest sucker, the person who buys a used copy of Frampton Comes Alive or the person who buys a new copyone $30 or so dollars?

$30.00?

That's a better price than they're offering here.

Of course ... it's still sealed! Just in case you wanna inhale some vintage air I guess?
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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 01, 2018 01:58PM
Better a rack full of Jean-Luc Ponty records, even if they're scratched up and shot to hell, than even a single Kenny G disc.

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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 01, 2018 07:38PM
A friend of mine who worked for years in a used record store, until very recently, said the vinyl reissues are a mixed bag. Often, the remastering has been done with the most easily available source master ... which usually turns out to be the digital master. Kind of defeats the purpose of going for analog sound.

It's the flipside of the cause behind so many weak-ass-sounding CDs in the early '80s: using the LP master for compact disc.

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Delvin
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
March 12, 2018 01:17PM
I asked a couple of my friends who shop for vinyl regularly. The consensus is that the newer vinyl, in & of itself, usually is high quality. Mastering, as we said, depends on the source.

The biggest issue they see is in the workmanship. A lot of the new vinyl is already warped, coming right out of the sleeve. And they see a lot of little edge-warping spots caused by fingertips lifting the LP off the press before it's fully cooled.

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Fleeingbandit
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
April 22, 2024 06:26AM
Since this thread has been bumped, I thought I would share my experiences vis-a-vis the cut-out bins from the 90's and early 00's.

I was always swarming over the bargain bins back in the 90's, as I was on a tight budget and as it happens, I seemed to like the music in those bins as much as the more commercially successful stuff.

A few cd's that I remember being regulars were:

1) Mighty Lemon Drops - Sound ( I'm a huge fan of their music, but even a die hard like me is really disappointed in the album).

2) Wall of Voodoo -Happy Planet ( A commercial failure, but a very good album nonetheless).

3) Nova Mob - Last Days Of Pompeii and Admiral of the Sea single (good band, but the drummer sounded like he had just graduated from 6th grade music class, almost put me off their music).

4) Definition of Sound - Love & Life (I don't know much about the band, but this poor record lit up half the cut-out bins in the mid 90's, I took pity and brought one of them home....even though it's drab, generic dance music, I felt the band should earn a few bucks to support their musical aspirations).

I truly miss the cut-out bins from all the major music stores of the 90's, especially with the long boxes, i still have all of them, if I do sell some of my cd's (emergencies only), i could earn a few extra bucks. I just saw a listing on Amazon for an original copy of Nirvana's "Nevermind" album with longbox and it was going for 800 bucks. Wow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2024 06:29AM by Fleeingbandit.
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Aitch
Re: Albums Found The Most In Bargain Bins
August 06, 2024 08:54AM
Just noticed the above post from 'satch' (hope he's well) about the surplus copies of the Saints' Eternally Yours. Recently listened to a poddy with Mark Arm saying that's how he discovered the Saints.
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