Re: And now it's time for THAT annual topic ...

Rock & Roll Hall of Fame nominees for 2025:

Bad Company*
The Black Crowes*
Mariah Carey
Chubby Checker*
Joe Cocker*
Billy Idol*
Joy Division/New Order
Cyndi Lauper
Maná*
Oasis
Outkast*
Phish*
Soundgarden
The White Stripes

To my surprise, more than half the ballot is first-time nominees (the ones with an asterisk). I'm startled that Chubby Checker and Joe Cocker weren't inducted long ago. Of the remaining names, only one of them (Soundgarden) has more than one previous nomination behind them.

Let the criticisms, predictions and general discussion commence.

Ah, Chubby Checker. A 65 year career built on one cover song, that only got recorded in the first place because Dick Clark wanted to feature "The Twist" on American Bandstand but Hank Ballard wasn't available, so Clark decided to hire a Philly local to record it and Checker got the nod. Following that was a career that produced nothing of much further significance beyond a soundalike sequel. But apparently the Chubster has been raising a stink with the RRHOF for years over the fact that his massively important contribution to the art form (again, a quickie cover version pumped out because the original artist couldn't make it to Philadelphia that week) had heretofore gone un-nominated, with him apparently implying that racism might be to blame, because yeah, whatever. I guess being a persistent pain in the ass can pay off. Mickey Dolenz might want to take notes.

Otherwise, the wrong Mick Ralphs band got nominated. I don't really care one way or another about Bad Company, but they weren't no Mott the Hoople.

Never heard of Mana before today. I would've thought if they were wanting to appeal to Latin music fans that Selena would be the obvious choice. Though if it were up to me, such a nom would go to Cafe Tacvba, who have the distinction of having been one of the best damn bands on the planet for the last three decades.

At least they didn't nominate Garth Brooks, like I was afraid they would. I sure hope they got the "induct a living Country artist who has no business whatsoever being here but will sell tickets to the ceremony" nonsense out of their system with Dolly and Willie.

Poor Tracy Chapman had her rediscovery happen at just the wrong time - a week or two too late for last year's nominations, way too early for this year's. Right around a year ago, everyone remembered they adored Tracy Chapman for a few weeks, but it didn't give her a lasting bump like the summer of "Running Up That Hill" gave Kate B.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/2025 09:52AM by breno.

The three I would absolutely vote for:

Joy Division / New Order
OutKast (can't believe this is their first nomination)
The White Stripes

Four more I would vote for:

Cyndi Lauper: really comes down to one and only one album, but it's a really great album.
Soundgarden: I was never the biggest fan - much of their work sounds too derivative to me. But I know plenty of people who love them and I've enjoyed their music in their company. At minimum, Superunknown is a good album with a great and surprising single in "Black Hole Sun" - its enormous popularity is well-deserved. There are a few other singles I enjoy as well.
Oasis: I can see why most people I know hate them, but had they split up after their second album and disappeared altogether, their legacy would look a lot better. They're a bit derivative, but those first two albums and all the non-LP releases that accompanied them are still remarkably consistent and enjoyable records, at least to me. Not my favorite Britpop - I wish Blur, Pulp and Suede were inducted first - but I'd induct them eventually.
Joe Cocker: His first two albums are good, but I wish they were the sign of potential soon to be fulfilled rather than the best he could do.

Cafe Tacuba put on one of the most energetic shows I've ever seen. Tho I'd still say that Los Lobos are the obvious choice for a Latin band.

I figure Maná will be unknown to most non-Latinos. But here in LA, they play sports stadiums. "The U2 of Latin America," I believe they've been dubbed? If that's true, I'll stick to my old cha-cha records.

Billy Idol?! Really?

Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

[postpunkmonk.com]
For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®

My preferred slate of inductees from this list:
Billy Idol
Joy Division/New Order
Cyndi Lauper
Oasis
Soundgarden
The White Stripes

My predicted results:
Bad Company
Mariah Carey
Chubby Checker
Joe Cocker
Outkast
Soundgarden
Plus "Musical Excellence" awards for Joy Division/New Order and the New York Dolls. (So they aren't nominated this year? Jimmy Buffett got the ME award last year, and he had never been nominated at all.)

IMO, it’s unjust if Oasis goes in before the Smiths, who’ve never gotten a nod.

Does this mean Generation X [the band] will never get in the RRHOF?

I'd be much more open to Billy Idol if it was Generation X getting nominated. Their first album is very good, particularly in its US configuration. Not great, but very good. Similarly, I'm not really a Commodores fan, but they did put out a few great singles and even though Lionel Richie had no involvement in their best one, I wish he was inducted with them rather than for his solo career.

Nile Rodgers is another artist whose whole band should've been inducted. And yet with eleven nominations, the voting panel couldn't get Chic over the top of that hill, for reasons unknown. And from interviews I read, he really felt it should happen.

Chic's last nomination was in 2017. When the ballot came up negative, the HoF decided to give Rodgers the Award for Musical Excellence. As much as he deserved that award -- what with his recordings for Chic, his songwriting, and his productions for everyone from Diana Ross to David Bowie, from Madonna to Daft Punk, from The B-52's to Duran Duran -- he said after the ceremony that he'd walked up onto that stage with a broken heart. As much as he's achieved, he knew that he never would've gotten so far without cutting his teeth in Chic first. Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson, his instrumental cohorts in Chic, were long gone by then, so he knew those two guys never would get their due.

Joy Division/New Order. That's it.

Inductees to be announced this Sunday. On fucking American Idol. Guess they're gearing up for Kelly Clarkson's eventual induction.*

Looks like maybe they'll be announced by James Taylor, provided he (or the audience) doesn't doze off in mid-sentence.

Anyhow, I hope Joy Division/New Order gets in this year, so I can give up any lingering interest I have in the proceedings. For years, I was probably one of the more staunch defenders (or at least less vehement detractors) of the place, but the last few induction classes did me in, especially the Dolly and Willie inductions - two artists I have the utmost respect for, but who so obviously don't belong that Dolly initially fought back against her nomination. I'm all for the broadest possible criteria for defining "rock and roll" - pop, soul, dance, disco, hip hop, etc., all fair game because they grew out of the same r&b roots as rock - or out of rock itself - and mostly got shunted off into side genres due to racial issues once white folks decided rock was their thing. Country was its own thing and eventually cross-pollinated with rock and roll (after rock and roll had already become a thing with no country influence whatsoever), so vintage country artists who had an influence on rock in its early days, like Hank Williams? Yeah, he belongs. Popular country artists who came along decades later, who never pretended to have anything to do with rock and vice versa, but are legendary enough that they will sell tickets to the induction ceremony? Screw off with that bullshit.

*I've actually grown to appreciate Kelly Clarkson over the last few years, at least as a person, maybe not so much as an artist. She seems to be a genuinely decent sort and has demonstrated a pretty broad taste in music via the covers she's done on her talk show. Dunno if Mike Douglas in his heyday would've trotted out a cover of "Fake Plastic Trees," though it would've been interesting.

breno Wrote:
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> Looks like maybe they'll be announced by James Taylor, provided he (or the audience) doesn't doze off in mid-sentence.

The most spot-on statement in a thread full of spot-on statements. I get the soft-rock lovers of the '70s being into JT during his heyday, but I could never understand why the kids I knew in high school and college in the late '80s-early '90s thought he was cool.

I know this discussion has nothing to do with him, but I couldn't resist the chance to pile on.

I have a friend who swears Taylor's first album is excellent, and while I trust this friend's judgment, I've never checked it out. He's just always seemed pretty sleepy to me, an impression reinforced by his appearance on Elvis Costello's Spectacle talk show, where he displayed all the vigor of a taxidermied sloth. I was surprised EC didn't end the interview after 15 minutes and spend the remaining 45 playing computer Solitaire.

We had Taylor on [well known music show I won't name to keep this out of Google searches, but most of you know] about 10 years ago, and while I'm with you on the blandness and general snooziness of his work, I gotta say: he was one of the nicest people we've ever worked with. Very friendly, didn't have handlers, would talk to anyone, including crew, and seemed genuinely happy to hang out with the kids who were brought in from the Grammys in the Schools program. (I've often wondered, though, if those kids, who looked like they were 12-14, had any idea who he was.)

I won't go out of my way to listen to a note of his music, and the way he sings everything, no matter how sad or dark, with the same upbeat half-smile drives me crazy. But I'll always defend his character. (His modern character, that is - I'm sure in his heroin days and skirt-chasing days he was an asshole.)

I was surprised to see him appear on Elvis Costello's show myself. What stood out was how Elvis compared Taylor's singing (i.e. phrasing) to Bing Crosby, and as someone who also listens to a lot of jazz and jazz-influenced music pre-dating rock n' roll, it made some sense. I can't say I'm a big Bing Crosby fan, but if you're someone who has a genuine interest in tracing pop music's entire evolution, he's an important figure from a very early time, earlier than Sinatra, and there is some interest in seeing how those once dominant strands in pop music survive or linger long after the culture has evolved into something else.

As for Taylor's records, his first two albums probably have the lion's share of his most durable songs. The first one (the self-titled album on Apple Records) may be a better collection of songs than his follow-up (and commercial breakthrough) Sweet Baby James, but it's also more uneven, sounding a bit too ornate in places. After those two albums, it becomes really slim pickings, though JT is much better than usual, maybe even his most listenable album. Robert Christgau (never a fan) once implied that Taylor's hits usually missed a welcome sense of humor and sense of horror that usually reflected Taylor's harrowing struggles with drug addiction, and I think Christgau's right. I'll also add that Taylor's covers are usually dreadful, but the one great exception is "Handy Man" which actually benefits from Taylor's soft and "sensitive" approach in a transformative way.

Beyond that, he also appears in a great, existential road film, Monte Hellman's Two-Lane Blacktop, and I also have schoolmates who'll confirm he's a kind and down-to-earth personality. Besides a genuine care for the planet, those less fortunate and a better country all around - causes he has donated to generously in terms of time and money - he's very kind towards his fans. One person I know went to a show and was surprised to see Taylor hanging out during the intermission and signing literally anything people handed to him onstage. It wasn't a break for Taylor so much as making time for his fans.

> I get the soft-rock lovers of the '70s being into JT during his heyday,
> but I could never understand why the kids I knew in high school and
> college in the late '80s-early '90s thought he was cool.

They did?

Don't get me wrong, I do get the appeal of Taylor's music and his voice. (I didn't get it in the '70s, but that's just the sort of snotty kid I was.) His voice has that warm, reassuring, comfort-food quality. It never starts a big fire, but it doesn't douse the flames either.

But your high-school/college classmates thought JT was cool? Enjoyable, even satisfying, sure, I'd buy that ... but cool?

"Cool" meaning they liked his music, which I couldn't understand.

My misunderstanding. Apologies, Zoo.

No worries. I would probably want clarification on that as well since nobody could possibly think he's cool. That said, he's apparently a friendly guy according to Michael T., so he's got that going for him

James Taylor’s voice gives me the creeps. Serial killer vibes. Slight exaggeration, but I honestly was not surprised when I found out about his mental health issues.

But I do like James Taylor, if we’re talking the member of Kool and the Gang, and the funky British organ guy. Those James Taylors are great!

Fan vote results:

1. Phish: 329,281 votes
2. Bad Company: 280,725 votes
3. Billy Idol: 260,416 votes
4. Cyndi Lauper: 236,960 votes
5. Joe Cocker: 233,495 votes
6. Soundgarden: 233,205 votes
7. Chubby Checker: 203,092 votes
8. The Black Crowes: 165,249 votes
9. Mariah Carey: 137,993 votes
10. Joey Division + New Order: 120,346 votes (Yes, that's how it was spelled on the website I lifted this from).
11. The White Stripes: 110,511 votes
12. Outkast: 108,073 votes
13. Oasis: 99,381 votes
14. Maná: 34,506 votes

So yeah, whatever. I only voted once, and only for Mr. Joseph Division.

If Chubby Checker gets in, they'd better make room for Los Del Rio. They had the exact same importance.

I don't mind Phish. I have to be in the mood, in small doses, and specific selections from the catalog. But RRHOF? Nah.

Joey Division?!? Ohhh, man, I can't even ...

Once again, the worst acts get the most fan votes, though just as I wish Lionel Ritchie was at least inducted with the Commodores than for his milquetoast solo career, I wish Idol had been nominated with Generation X who at least started off as a good and promising band.

I have a few friends who are big Phish fans and the band seems like fine people, but I don't think I'll ever be a fan. I just don't find their music that interesting or engaging.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2025 10:03AM by belfast.

> I don't think I'll ever be a fan. I just don't find their music
> that interesting or engaging.

That describes how I feel about practically all "jam bands" -- from Phish and the Dave Matthews Band on down (or from the Grateful Dead on up). Nearly all of them have the instrumental chops, and quite a few of them can knock off a good song or two ... but then they spoil it (for me) by dragging things out to useless lengths. Plenty of my friends have tried to turn me on to their own favorites -- DMB, Phish, Widespread Panic, or those perennial Colorado favorites, the String Cheese Incident. And even when said band is at their best, my response is nearly always the same: "Look, it's clear that these guys can really play. But this song could've ended 18 minutes ago and I would've been fine with it."

For the statisticians, #s 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13 are official Trouser Press bands.

And the winners are...

Performer Category:

Bad Company
Chubby Checker
Joe Cocker
Cyndi Lauper
Outkast
Soundgarden
The White Stripes

Musical Influence Award:
Salt-N-Pepa
Warren Zevon

Musical Excellence Award:
Thom Bell
Nicky Hopkins
Carol Kaye

Ahmet Ertegun Award:
Lenny Waronker

The 2025 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Induction will be live on Saturday, November 8th at the Peacock Theater in Los Angeles, California. The 2025 ceremony will once again stream live on Disney+, with a special airing on ABC at a later date and available on Hulu the next day.

"Each of these inductees created their own sound and attitude that had a profound impact on culture and helped to change the course of Rock & Roll forever," said John Sykes, Chairman of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. "Their music gave a voice to generations and influenced countless artists that followed in their footsteps."

The Inductees were announced live on ABC this evening by Ryan Seacrest during the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame episode of "American Idol," where the Top 14 American Idol finalists took on songs from legendary Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Inductees as America voted live for the Top 12. The episode will be available tomorrow on Hulu.

Wow, they got nearly everyone I was voting for, with one big exception: Joy Divison/New Order, and of course they were the ones I was rooting for the most.

Fucking Chubby Checker. Well, Percy Faith needed company in the "One song then absolutely nothing else of any importance whatsoever" category. At least Percy's song wasn't the soundtrack to a brief dumbass fad, and is still meaningful outside its window of popularity.

But like I said earlier, it'll be a travesty now if Los Del Rio don't get in for "Macarena." The precedent is set.

Has Early Influences been renamed Musical Influences? That gives that committee a little more room to maneuver outside the dunderheadedness of the actual voting body. Great to see Zevon and Salt-N-Pepa in. I expect that'll be how JD/NO makes it, and probably the Dolls.

Phish didn't get in. I have no strong feelings about Phish one way or the other, but do have the same warm feeling I had when Dave Matthews didn't get in the first year he won the fan vote, as Matthews and Phish share largely the same fan base, which is largely composed of the sorts of people I enjoy seeing not get what they want.

Percy Sledge (not Faith)?

I agree, Chubby Checker is nowhere near the same level of his contemporaries and should not be in the Hall of Fame. If it's because of that one record, then induct the record because there's a category to honor great (or if not great, important) records like "The Twist" though frankly it's a mediocre record and IMHO Hall of Fame inductee Hank Ballard's original is better. (And if there is a great 'twist' record, it's "Peppermint Twist." Cuts Checker's hit to shreds.)

FWIW, I wouldn't induct Sledge either, but he turned out to be a better recording artist than I originally believed. It Tears Me Up (The Best Of Percy Sledge) is a solid collection. Even if nothing else is as great as "When a Man Loves a Woman," it's all high-grade soul.

Re: "Early Influences," at this point, there aren't many great "early influences" left, so if they want to keep inducting people in that category for the long run, I think they have little choice but to make it "musical influences." If it gets Fairport Convention, Richard & Linda Thompson, the Dolls, the Modern Lovers/Richman, Pere Ubu, the Gang of Four, the Replacements, Hüsker Dü, the Minutemen, Big Black, etc., etc. a spot in the Hall of Fame, I'm all for it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2025 10:26AM by belfast.

Ha! Yes, Sledge. Gonna leave it Faith though anyhow.

I'm happy to see Nicky Hopkins get due credit.

I don't know what the ceremony has lined up for him (it's probably not even finalized yet), but personally, I'd string together his most famous piano parts, either via recording or even have someone comparable playing them live. It's really the only way to do justice to the breadth of his contributions, and for a listener who is unfamiliar with his name but familiar with those songs, it would be staggering: "Sympathy for the Devil"? "Revolution"? The Who's "The Song Is Over"? And other '60s hits from the Kinks, the Jefferson Airplane, the Jeff Beck Group and Rod Stewart, Cat Stevens, etc., etc.?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2025 10:35AM by belfast.

To Breno's point, calling Zevon an "influence" stretches the meaning of that word a bit too far. Has anyone other than his son ever cited him as a beacon for their creative endeavors? Linda Ronstadt? Kid Rock? Terri Clark?

He gave plenty of people who announce their profundity via bumper stickers a new favorite phrase with. "Enjoy every sandwich."

> It'll be a travesty now if Los Del Rio
> don't get in for "Macarena." The
> precedent is set.

Werner Thomas ("The Chicken Dance") and Psy ("Gangnam Style") probably will be right behind them.

Been playing Captain Beefheart a lot this weekend, partly because of Pavement and partly because of Pere Ubu. The former has a movie that just opened and the members who have been helping with promotion name-checked Beefheart as a massive influence, and in some of the eulogies for David Thomas, Beefheart is brought up as a major early influence. He really is one of those artists who didn't immediately change the cultural landscape but instead saw his influence grow from the margins and into the mainstream through those who were captivated by his work, perhaps working its way through multiple generations of artists. (Tom Waits, Pixies, even David Lynch and Matt Groening, etc.) Given how the "influences" category has dramatically evolved, the time feels ripe for an induction - if not next year then hopefully soon.