What Makes A Scene A Scene?

Is there a definition of what makes a music scene? We all can think of lots of scenes off the top of our heads, like: the British invasion, Haight/Ashbury, CBGB, LA punk, etc. But is the scene strictly a matter of geography? I was thinking of the avant-rock of the 70s/80s. Various former Velvet Underground members, Brian Eno, Fripp, David bowie, later joined by Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, Laurie Anderson, etc . This crew doesn’t have a name. You never hear about this “scene.” But they worked in close collaboration for years, in various permutations. As opposed to the alleged “British invasion,” in which they scarcely had any inter-connections . The Beatles, say, and the Kinks had fuck-all to do with each other. But they’re both lumped into the same scene.

A coincidence of geography doesn’t seem nearly as artistically important as actual collaborations. But maybe that’s not what “scene“ means?

I’ve heard the term “the mellow mafia“ to describe the LA soft rock scene of the Eagles, Warren Zevon, Linda Ronstadt, Jackson Browne etc. But that’s hardly a term that has come in to common usage. So what should we call that whole post-Velvets/Eno/David Byrne etc crew? I hate the term “art rock“ because everything is art. Little Richard is art. If it’s creative human expression, then it’s art. So how about the, I dunno, “Avant-Rock Army.” Which is a terrible name, I know we can do better! It seems like someone should’ve written books about this bunch, but we only have individual biographies of y’know, the Velvets, Eno, Bowie, Talking Heads, etc. At least Michael Quercio had the decency to invent the phrase “the Paisley Underground” to describe that crew.

And the Elephant 6, and the LA Free Music Society also conveniently coined their own scene names. Thanks, guys!

You’re onto one of my favorite discussions here, Mr Fab. I’ve argued for years that there just aren’t ‘scenes’ (or I sometimes call them ‘movements’) like there once were. How so?

Born in 66, my ground zero was ‘79-‘81 for musical molding. What was happening? SCENES! No, I’m not talking generalized ‘new wave’. I’m talking 2tone, rockabilly revival, neo-mod, blitz/New Romantic, SoCal hardcore, synth-pop, post-punk, neo-psychedelia, NWOBHM, etc etc. I’m talking SCENES! I read about them monthly!

So what makes a scene? I’m not sure it always requires a location (like the Seattle scene). But I DO think it needs a MEDIA buzzword and loose definition… and enough people to read about it. You get a kid from LA, a kid from Hoboken, a kid from rural Idaho to all think about the same three-four bands… you make a ‘scene’!

I don’t know if all the bands need to dress the same or have the same general sense of style… but it helps, no? EVERY scene I’ve mentioned probably evokes a particular Image or sound in your mind.

I read about current music all the time… but I just don’t think there are unified SCENES like we once had. Occasional blips maybe.

I guess you blame the internet for creating too many fractured tastes? But wouldn’t the internet help proliferate a scene?

>>At least Michael Quercio had the decency to invent the phrase “the Paisley Underground” to describe that crew.

Actually, my understanding is that Michael Quercio said that as a joke to a naive reporter and the whole 'Paisley Underground' took off from there with no regard whatsoever for accuracy. The one common denominator, of course, was Prince - though he never got to The Dream Syndicate. (Did he?)

I love the fact that the Paisley Underground ended up inspiring Prince. Imagine the Prince-Game Theory collaborations that could have existed.

Or Rain Parade, as far as I know.

That's an interesting point, Bip. But are those things you mentioned (2-Tone, Mod and rockabilly revivals, New Romantic, etc) scenes, or genres? (IS there a difference?)

I would say that SoCal punk was more than a genre -there was quite a lot of personnel interaction. Heck, to this day, everyone plays in everyone else's band a la the avant-rock army. But was there much collaboration between those other scenes/genres? It might have been, as you pointed out, a media creation., e.g.: not many bands self-identified as New Romantic, they just found themselves lumped in with each other by (usually) British music writers.

I guess the various musical developments that Bip mentions above could be called "movements." Maybe some would call them "fads." But to me, a "scene" involves multiple like-minded musicians in the same geographical area.

The early 2000s, for example, saw a promising rejuvenation of rock, involving a number of new bands from vastly different locations -- The White Stripes (Detroit), The Strokes (NYC), The Hives (Sweden) and The Vines (Australia). Although each of these bands contributed to this movement -- whether through a choice single ("Get Free") or a great album (Veni Vidi Vicious) -- I wouldn't call it a scene. (Heck, some of you might not even have seen that as a movement.)

Sorry, can’t let this topic go. I ‘ve been thinking about how location can certainly influence a scene.

I’m currently going through a full-on Joy Division obsession (not the first time, likely not the last) and it’s clear to me now that their music almost HAD to come from a stark, grey scene like the decaying factory setting of late 70s Manchester. This was not going to come from sunny California.

Likewise, the Laurel Canyon artists were going to come from a scene/locale like that… definitely not a place as bleak as Manchester.

( interesting aside from my current obsession… I just realized that PiL appeared on American Bandstand may 17 1980… the next day, may 18, Ian Curtis hung himself. I remember both impacting me, but not the temporal closeness of them)
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2024 12:19PM by Bip.

Everytime I hear something like, "that sound couldn't come from sunny California," I think of the curdled hardcore of Orange County in the 1980s and 1990s.

> I’m currently going through a full-on Joy Division obsession
> (not the first time, likely not the last) and it’s clear to me now
> that their music almost HAD to come from a stark, grey scene
> like the decaying factory setting of late 70s Manchester.

Having spent more than ten years in Seattle, it makes perfect sense to me that a scene built around heavy, dark rock would originate here.

> This was not going to come from sunny California.

Which explains, in part, why Stone Temple Pilots were derided as copycats. The hipsters in Seattle scoffed at the notion that a band from San Diego could've come up with that grunge sound on their own.

I've gone back to listening to the Dunedin (New Zealand) "scene" from the 80's and 90's; some great bands from there, The Chills, The Bats and The Verlaines, to mention a few. You can hear the influences of Velvet Underground, The Stooges and the psychedelic bands of the late 60's in their music, especially the jangly guitar work that I am a sucker for, hello, Roger McGuinn. They also influenced several bands around the world, like R.E.M, The Pavement, Mudhoney, and even Yo La Tengo!

I lived in Dunedin for a half-year in 1994 so this is close to my heart!

Do online spaces count as scenes? Just as the gloom of Manchester and Seattle affected the music made there, TikTok has pushed music towards very short songs that sound like they're made for completely fried attention spans.

Yes, I'd say that the mashup /sound-collage on-line explosion around the turn of the century was a scene. Due to copyright laws, this couldn't really exist before the free-for-all of the early internet. Everyone seemed to know each other, there were "stars" that broke out into the mainstream, and a fair amount of collaboration. Tho mashup clubs did start to pop up in real life, the scene was largely born and thrived on-line. Perhaps the first significant art movement born of the internet.