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Re: hall o' fame nominees

hall o' fame nominees
February 01, 2023 09:43AM
The 2023 Rock & Roll Hal of Fame nominees have been announced.
The White Stripes
Missy Elliott
Joy Division/New Order
Sheryl Crow
Cyndi Lauper
Warren Zevon
Willie Nelson
Kate Bush
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Iron Maiden
George Michael
The Spinners.
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Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 01, 2023 11:26AM
Not a bad list at all. JD/NO FINALLY nominated, as is Zevon. I'm pretty meh on Sheryl Crow, but as mainstream 90s acts go, she beats the hell out of Matchbox 20. And if there must be a slot dedicated to "aging Country artist with tangential ties to R&R but who will sell tickets to the induction ceremony," Willie is a legend.

They usually induct around seven of the nominees. If it were up to me, from this class it would be:
Joy Order
Five of the rest. Pretty much all equally worthy and I'm not going to have too much of a fit one way or the other on any of them.

Then I'd sneak King Crimson and Giorgio Moroder in through the Musical Excellence loophole, put Roger Dean and Peter Saville in via Non-Performers to get people in who made actual artistic contributions to the form and rescue that category from corporate suits, and use Early Influences to get Link Wray in.

Kind of surprised at the continued absence of Mariah Carey from the nominations. I know she wouldn't garner much enthusiasm in these parts, but judging by the Hall's own criteria and history, she's probably the most blatant snub currently ongoing. She's been eligible since 2015 but to my knowledge never been nominated, despite being the biggest commercial success of her decade of the 90s, always having had a hand in writing and producing her own material, and would've been much more adventurous had her label (who was also her husband) allowed her to be - witness her recording and releasing a secret indie-rock album in the mid-90s. So the fact that she's yet to be nominated makes me wonder if Tommy Mottolla has a big pull in the nominating process.

Apparently, it was Billy Joel who managed to get Warren Zevon nominated - he'd been his biggest advocate to the nominating committee for years. So good for him. He seems to also have been a huge booster for Cyndi Lauper's nomination.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 12:15PM by breno.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 01, 2023 04:22PM
Good god… if Kate B can’t get in after the year she just had, it’s never going to happen.

I’d have to put George Michael in. Songwriter, singer, performed all instruments, visual presence, associated with the big names like Elton and Aretha, incredibly well-known hits…. maybe he’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but he would be the obvious pick for me.

Nothing against Rage or soundgarden, but if they get in ahead of Maiden that just ain’t right. To this day I still see folks in Iron Maiden tshirts out and about.

Willie, like Dolly, probably just feels funny about being on the list.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 01, 2023 05:59PM
> Nothing against Rage or soundgarden, but
> if they get in ahead of Maiden that just ain’t right.

Hey, Carly Simon got in as a full-fledged performer -- a singer whose stage fright was so legendary, she even sent a pre-recorded performance to SNL, rather than step onto the NBC stage in front of an audience. Judas Priest, meanwhile, had to settle for the award for "musical excellence" (translation: "We don't really like or respect you enough to induct you, but here's a consolation prize. Now go away, and tell your fans to leave us alone").

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2023 05:59PM by Delvin.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 02, 2023 02:15PM
This is honestly a really good list of nominees. Like, startlingly good.

I would immediately give the go-ahead to Joy Division/New Order (and I don't love Joy Division!), Kate Bush, Zevon, Nelson, and George Michael.

I am not a listener of the heavier stuff, but Iron Maiden should clearly merit inclusion on longevity and impact. I am very meh about Soundgarden, RATM, and the White Stripes.

I like Sheryl Crow and Cyndi Lauper a lot, but I don't know about Hall of Fame? And the Spinners don't seem like they are significant enough; I can't remember too many of their tunes.

Missy Elliott is a legend in her space, but I just don't understand "Rock and Roll." She has fewer rock connections than many past R&B and hip-hop awardees.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 03, 2023 02:47AM
> The Spinners don't seem like they are significant enough; I can't remember too many of their tunes.

The Spinners actually were quite successful during the '70s, with a solid string of hits, all co-written and produced by Thom Bell (who passed away in December). "I'll Be Around," "Games People Play," "Rubberband Man" and "Then Came You" were pretty choice. Lead singer Philippe Wynne was a standout among the soul vocal groups of the day -- one who could throw it down as the leader and frontman, or blend into the ensemble with ease. (And Wynne is member of a club even more rarefied than the "27 Club" -- a musician who died onstage.)
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Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 03, 2023 07:20AM
Not that I’m a Spinnerologist, but ‘working my way back to you’ was on the radio all the time when I was discovering pop music.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 03, 2023 08:52AM
The Spinners were the most Motown-sounding of the 1970s soul groups. They'd be a better choice than a lot of previous inductees.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 03, 2023 10:57AM
I remember that one! I think they were probably chart-toppers before I was listening to much pop radio.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 05, 2023 11:17PM
(first time poster, hi everyone!)

Surprisingly good list of nominees, except for Sheryl Crow (okay but always left me cold) I think everyone else has a pretty good argument for induction even though I'm not a huge fan of every single one of them.

The Spinners should've been in decades ago, and at this point it may be tough. It probably doesn't help that only one of the original members is still alive. For my money, they're the greatest Philly Soul group of all-time, and it's strange to me that the only representatives of Philly Soul in the Hall besides the O'Jays are Hall & Oates.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2023 11:17PM by belfast.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 06, 2023 12:39PM
My wish list?

Joy Division/New Order (long overdue)
Cyndi Lauper (a real trailblazer, in her own way, which is more than I'd say for Sheryl Crow)
Warren Zevon
Kate Bush (if it doesn't happen this year, then it never will)
Iron Maiden
The Spinners

Why do I have a feeling that either Zevon, Maiden or JD will get the "musical excellence" award ...?
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 06, 2023 03:08PM
I would've been reluctant to vote for Lauper in the past. It really comes down to one great album she's never come close to matching. But it made an enormous impact, and listening to it now, it's held up really well - and lately the Hall of Fame has inducted quite a few artists who've done much less (especially last year).
Re: hall o' fame nominees
February 07, 2023 01:42PM
And welcome, Belfast! Looking forward to your contributions to the banter here.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 11:09AM
And somehow, from that solid list of nominees, they managed to induct almost the least inspiring slate (to me) that they could've. I'm very happy that Kate made it, but after that, meh. RATM and Missy Elliott are okay, I guess - I've never cared enough about Rage to be able to identify a single song of theirs, and while Missy is swell, it bugs me that she was inducted in her first year of eligibility. The Spinners are great, but feel like one last bit of Boomer refusal to just let go. Sheryl Crow has never, ever, ever been even the least bit interesting, beyond the fact that she may have been (very) indirectly related to two different suicides. George Michael - I guess I don't mind that.

Willie Nelson bugs the hell out of me for the same reason Dolly did. Country and Rock are related, but not synonymous. Country musicians who actually influenced the development of Rock are fair inductions. Country artists that became famous after Rock was a thing but never played anything other than Country? No. This is just inducting famous people for the sake of them being famous. You want to put Country musicians in the RRHOF? Buck Owens or the Maddox Brothers and Rose fit the bill. Dolly and Willie don't. Nor will Garth and Shania when either of them are nominated next year. (Waylon will never be, due to being dead and therefore unable to sell tickets for the ceremony.)

Mostly I'm just pissed that Joy D/New O didn't make the cut. If they had, I'd be able to retire from giving a damn about the whole thing.

The Musical Excellence category has settled into its role as the Veteran's Committee, inducting obviously worthy people the voters at large have proven too dense to induct outright, so Chaka Khan is finally in. As are Al Kooper and Bernie Taupin, which is fine.

Link Wray finally made it via Early Influences, which is fair enough. DJ Kool Herc also got in through that door, also worthy.

Don Cornelius nabbed the non-performer slot for the year, and I've no belly ache with that. There are vast categories of worthy people who are deserving of getting in in that category that have never been tapped - visual artists like Rick Griffin, Mouse & Kelly, Roger Dean, Peter Saville, Vaughan Oliver; critics and writers like Lester Bangs, Greil Marcus, Ira fucking Robbins, Peter Guralnik - but Cornelius was a worthy and overdue choice. At least it wasn't another damn industry suit or Bruce Springsteen's lawyer.

Anyhow, very happy that Kate is in. Dunno if she'll brave severe ear pain to make it to the ceremony - I somehow doubt it but you never know. I just hope that they come up with someone worthy to do her induction speech and not do something stupid like having one of the kids from Stranger Things do it.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2023 01:31PM by breno.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 08:47PM
They should just change the name to the Popular Music Hall of Fame, because that's what it is at this point. The relationship between rock and country is iffy, but it's existed since the start of rock'n'roll and persisted to the present. Sheryl Crow sounds rather dull to me, but she's gone through a reappraisal and her influence looms over recent Americana.

For heavy music in the R'n'R Hall of Fame, Rage Against the Machine are a far safer bet than Iron Maiden. They were always much hipper, while the latter still reek of D and D playing, denim jacket-wearing teenage nerdiness (and I like them!)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2023 09:34PM by steevee.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 10:12PM
Lucinda Williams would've been a far better pick than Crow. Of course, Williams has never been nominated even though she's been making records much longer. I get Crow gets much more radio play, but her music is so bland and harmless, even at its most influential it simply maintains the status quo among generic pop music devoid of risk or any distinguished personality. It's a different story with Williams - I look at the best Americana being made now and it's all deeply influenced by Williams by their own admission: Jason Isbell, Angel Olsen, Sharon Van Etten, Waxahatchee, etc.

Supposedly the new head of the HOF pushed in a lot of C̶l̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶C̶h̶a̶n̶n̶e̶l̶ iHeart programmers which makes the inductees of the last couple of years even less surprising.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2023 10:31PM by belfast.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 12:30PM
Iron Maiden not being in is criminal.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2023 12:30PM by Bip.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 01:11PM
In the fan vote, I tried to vote every day for Kate, JD/NO, Zevon, Iron Maiden and A Tribe Called Quest. Kate is the only one to make it in.
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Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 03, 2023 06:59PM
Nearly the same fan ballot from me except I voted for the Spinners instead of Zevon.
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Re: hall o' fame nominees
May 10, 2023 06:15AM
Vaughn Oliver! Yes! He did some amazing work with artists on the 4AD label, including many of Cocteau Twins' earlier releases.

I thought they would never vote in Linda Ronstadt, it took 20 years after she first became eligible. She was one of the biggest female stars of the 70's, and, as mentioned above, she should be in solely as an influencer.

One artist I'd like to see in the Hall is William Orbit...maybe not on music alone, but his escapades behind the mixing board are most worthy....he engineered and produced records for several artists already in the Hall, including Madonna (he produced her comeback album, "Ray Of Light," which I have since forgiven him for).

Another worthy (in my estimation, at least) is Gary Numan. He may not have been very popular in America, but he dominated the British charts for years and was incredibly influential, including bringing synth pop into the mainstream (with deferential nods to Kraftwerk, already in the Hall, Ultravox and OMD).

As for the Hall itself, I'm a bit ambivalent towards it, especially because there are so many artists who deserve recognition for their music, but only get a brief mention in some of the smaller music magazines. About 2/3 of the music I listen to aren't from the Hall anyway.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2023 06:22AM by Fleeingbandit.
Re: hall o' fame nominees
June 01, 2023 06:21PM
Most of the music from that list is so far removed from Rock & Roll, at this point, they might as well nominate Beethoven, Mozart, Gershwin and Emerson, Lake & Palmer. That would open the door for my vote.

Klaatu (Gort returns, with a band this time) Barada Nikto!

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2023 06:53PM by STEVE.
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