Re: What’s your Ramones cut-off? How about others??

To clarify, the “cut-off” is that point at which you stopped buying (or actively enjoying albums) by a certain artist.

It’s a personal thing. Doesn’t necessarily mean the artist’s quality dropped off, but for you it was time to search elsewhere. At least for the time being. There’s so many artists I could ask this about, but The bruddas are on my mind at this moment.

For me, it was ‘End of the Century’ which was my discovery point. Interestingly I never really went forward with them, only backwards, picking up all their albums prior to that one. Took me like 25 years to pick up Pleasant Dreams, then nothing after it. They may be fine albums but I couldn’t be bothered.

Knowing what I do now, this was a culmination for them. They loved 60s 45rpm pop and Spector had to be a hero to them. And though it gets bashed, I really love the songs on that lp.

Other notorious cutoffs for me?
No Springsteen after the 5 lp live album.
Very little REM after ‘document’
No XTC after ‘skylarking’

What are YOUR cutoffs?

With me, it's more about drop-out points than cut-off points. Example: End of the Century was my starting point for The Ramones too. I went backwards and forwards from there. I didn't hear anything by the bruddahs that I considered a waste of effort until Halfway to Sanity (serious shortage of decent songs on that one). But I picked back up on them with Brain Drain.

Another example: Never Let Me Down is my drop-out point with Bowie. Very little on that album appeals to me. But I ended up liking his next album, Black Tie White Noise, as well as his work with Tin Machine.

But a few cut-off points do exist, for me:

Springsteen, after Darkness on the Edge of Town. Although The River was my entry point, I found at least half of it pretty boring. My roommate introduced me to Bruce's Seventies work.

R.E.M., after Green. That album gets bashed a bit, but to my ears, it fits in well with the I.R.S. releases. Out of Time is where R.E.M. jumps the shark, and plunges right into its jaws.

The Stones, after Tattoo You. Anything they did after that is just product.

Lou Reed, after New York.

To Delvin's point, I too think "drop-off" point is a better descriptor. Not that I don't drop some artists when I think they're starting to suck, but it's more that I lose interest when they feel predictable or stale. They may still be doing solid work, but when there's so much other music out there, and I have limited room on my shelves (or time at my office to stream), things grind to a halt for certain folks.

For example: my drop-off point for Steve Earle is Jerusalem. I continued listening to him after that for a while, and I don't think he's done anything I'd consider bad (well, maybe Washington Square Park), but everything after that became "listen a couple of times then file away, never to be touched again." Same with Lucinda Williams and Reno's favorite album Car Wheels On a Gravel Road. Nothing she's done since has been awful, but none of it held my interest, either. Hell, even Car Wheels isn't a patch on Sweet Old World or her 1988 self-titled album, which is one of my top 10 favorite albums ever.

This doesn't explain why I haven't done the same with Richard Thompson's catalog, when I haven't truly loved one of his records since Mock Tudor. But I'll probably buy everything he does without fail regardless, because few artists have rewired my brain as much as he did in the 80s when I first heard him.

I'd also be curious to know when someone has reached a limit with an entire catalog. I was telling someone this morning that I lost interest in the Flaming Lips a couple of years ago. There wasn't any flashpoint - it was just me looking at my CD shelves, wondering what was gonna be sacrificed to make room for the numerous Bill Frisell CDs I'd acquired, and realized I hadn't listen to any of the Lips disks in literally years. Plus they'd just released a new album, and (a) didn't notice until a week or so after its release and (b) I didn't make the slighest effort to listen to it when I did find out. The switch had just...flipped. So away they all went to make room for a healthy chunk of the Frisell catalog.

By the way, I did ditch the Earle and Williams CDs that came out after the ones I mention above. Made lots of room for other stuff.

***Edit: I kept up with the Ramones all the way to the end, though at this point in my life only the first four albums really matter to me.



Post Edited (08-05-19 16:21)

I never cut off the Ramones, even as it was quite clear that their albums were pretty spotty. They still would sneak in a classic here and there. When I'd hear one of those late-period gems like "Ape Man Hop," or "Go Li'l Camero Go," I'd again remember how, despite all their imitators, there was still no one like 'em.

REM on the other hand, were DEAD to me after "Green," heh heh.

M.T.'s post reminds me that The Flaming Lips had a distinct drop-off point for me. None of their albums since Embryonic has managed to sustain my interest from start to finish.

I first heard "Teenaged Lobotomy" when it was used in "Rock N' Roll High School" and I saw the film reviewed on "Sneak Previews" on PBS. So I finally heard Ramones after reading about them for a year or two thanks to PBS! Soon afterward, "End Of The Century" came out and the FM Rock station I listened to then actually played it as their midnight album. I went out and bought a copy. I was primed to be a Ramones fan but when I heard the 4 track advance EP for "Pleasant Dreams" and heard "We Want The Airwaves" biting Judas Priest chord sequences, I immediately lost interest.

Like everyone, I eventually went back and got the first four. I thought they peaked with "Rocket To Russia." I never cared too much for "Road To Ruin." I lived apart from Ramones until I changed to see the video for "Poison Heart" from "Mondo Bizarro" and at that point hopped back on the bus and got all of them… except for "Animal Boy," which I still need. I then saw Ramones on their last two tours, thankfully!



Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

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Monk, thanks for the reminder ...I’d actually forgotten that ‘sneak previews’ was the name of Siskel and Ebert’s show. I used to watch that constantly. Soon as I saw the name, the cheesy theme song was instantly playing in my head.

A fun disturbing memory for young Bip was seeing them review John Waters’ Pink Flamingos, showing the plate-licking scene. Scarring!



Post Edited (08-06-19 20:13)

Bip - THAT was the episode with "RNR High School!" Their special "cult movies" episode! I vividly remember seeing that scene from "Pink Flamingos;" one of the few from that film that they could probably show on TV. But I can't for the life of me remember the theme song [thought the marquee titles stayed with me].



Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

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For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®

The Ramones?

Everything after the debut was gravy.

Have probably already posted this but...

relative ranking

Ramones          10
Leave Home       8½   must include Carbona, else 8
Rocket           6½
End Century      6    objective 6, subjective fave
Adios Amigos     5½   rec cuts = grow up, making monsters, crusher
Mondo Bizarro    5    = Job, Spiderman, Poison Heart, Anxiety,
Pleasant Dreams  4¾   = Not My Place, Sitting, All's Quiet
Road to Ruin     4½   = Sedated, I Wanted Everything
Brain Drain      4    = Zero Zero, I Believe in Miracles
Too Tough        3½   = Wart Hog
Subterranean     3¼   = Highest Trails
Animal Boy       2½   = Something to Believe In
Halfway 2 Sanity 2    = probably not really
Acid Eaters      1    = nope



All Music Fans Must Own > first LP
General Rock Collectors > top 2
Indie Rock Collectors > top 4
Casual Ramones Fans > top 6 LPs + certain songs
Serious Ramones Fans > top 8
Nobody Needs > bottom 6


I own them all, I think, but since I liked Adios I guess I didn't have a cut-off - just a rec'd one!

My Springsteen cut = Devin's
RT = have a list like Ramones, no cut off though
REM cutoff = Reckoning

Interesting to see two of the C.J. era albums rated so highly. I liked the C.J. era, but conventional Ramones theory holds the first four as sacrosanct and the rest as chaff. C.J. era was when I got back into the band after a decade layoff.



Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

[postpunkmonk.com]
For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®

Cheap Trick = Next Position Please (and I'm sure that's stretching it for most)
XTC = Skylarking
The Cure = Disintegration
King's X = Ear Candy
New Order = Technique
REM = Green
Springsteen = Darkness (which is really the only album now of his I'll listen to)

As for Bowie, there's a dark hole from the 80s-90s without many bright spots for a while there, and I don't give it much attention. But then he picked back up again with the "...Hours" album and delivered the goods again after that.

Same with Simple Minds. There's a place to drop out, but another to join back in.



Post Edited (08-13-19 08:21)

Zoo - Very close to my cutoffs on a lot of those.

XTC - Oranges + Lemons
The Cure - Disintegration
New Order - Technique


Simple Minds - Dropout after "Sparkle In The Rain" and re-up at "Good News From The Next World."

Bowie - drop out after "Scary Monsters" and rejoin for "Black Tie, White Noise." Then skip "Outside" but grab the rest.



Former TP subscriber [81, 82, 83, 84]

[postpunkmonk.com]
For further rumination on the Fresh New Sound of Yesterday®

Ramones-ANIMAL BOY
REM-AUTOMATIC FOR THE PEOPLE, although I like a few songs afterwards
XTC-ORANGES AND LEMONS
Springsteen-TUNNEL OF LOVE, although I like most of HIGH HOPES and maybe an album's worth of stray songs post-'87
Rolling Stones-TATTOO YOU (this is probably too generous)

Can't say I ever jumped off the Ramones train (and I still say that the Richie-era albums are underrated, esp. Too Tough to Die). However, I sold off Brain Drain and Acid Eaters a long time ago and I can't say my life has been emptier without them.

Recently saw the 1932 movie ‘Freaks’ and learned where the Ramones came up with their chant in the song ‘Pinhead’...

[m.youtube.com]

I think that the first 3 albums are masterpieces, the next 4 somewhat flawed but OK & the rest best heard on compilations/box sets.

Any love, however, for I'TS ALIVE, the bizarro version of Frampton Comes Alive?

Yeah, I love It's Alive, along with the King Biscuit Flower Hour live show of the Ramones, recorded just a week later with nearly the same set list. ("Judy Is a Punk" is the only song that's on one album but not the other.)