Non-Goth Gothic Rock

I just picked up the new album by Chelsea Wolfe and was reminded that I have long believed there's an entire genre of rock that's never been categorized as a genre because the best name for it is already taken.

I'm going to label it Bodice Ripper Rock, because while it's undeniably gothic its gothicness comes from the same place as romance novel covers rather than old horror movies - it's all heaving bosoms and heightened emotions and not so much vampires and Tim Burton movies. There's some overlap, but for the most part these are the people who traffic in a lot of the same emotional territory as Goth but without the horror show imagery.

People I would put in the genre of Bodice Ripper Rock:

Roy Orbison (the founder of the sound, along with Phil Spector)
The Walker Brothers/Scott Walker
Leonard Cohen
The Zombies
John Cale
Roxy Music/Bryan Ferry
Meat Loaf (I didn't say it was all good)
Nick Cave
Ellen Foley (but only the Spirit of St. Louis album)
Echo and the Bunnymen/Ian McCulloch
The Triffids
Sinead O'Connor
Mary Margaret O'Hara
PJ Harvey
The Tindersticks
Neko Case
Interpol
The National
Editors
Dappled Cities
Anna Calvi
Chelsea Wolfe



Post Edited (10-28-13 14:06)

I know exactly what you mean - this is a "genre" for which I have a fascination. I'd add:

My Jerusalem
Cousteau
Thomas Feiner & Anywhen (the Opiates, anyway - I can't speak for any of their others, because I can't find them)
Madrugada
Richard Hawley
Christian Kjellvander

I'm glad you brought this up - I'm always on the lookout for bands of that stripe, and you've given me some names (especially Chelsea Wolfe, about whom I've read good things but haven't heard) to check out.

They're a completely different kind of band, but the Green Pajamas take a lot of inspiriation from gothic literature and art, without sounding "goth."



Post Edited (10-28-13 14:35)

I thought the Editors were more of a neo-postpunk band in the vein of Bloc Party and their ilk. But the review I just read of The Weight of Your Love makes me think otherwise. Is that a good one to sample?

I keep forgetting that album is out and haven't heard it yet.

The Editors are a neo-postpunk band, but they have always tapped into the same over the top dramatics that earned the Bunnymen a spot on my list. Unfortunately for them, on the last album (In This Light and On This Evening) the dramatics crossed the line from being interestingly intense to hilariously hambone - on the lyrical side, anyway. The music was still pretty good, though more synth-y than what they had been previously.

I just listened to a couple of brief samples of the new album and it sounds like they're staying the course musically from the last album. Hopefully Tom Smith took a chill pill with the lyrics and vocals and stepped back to the sane side of the line and isn't musing on things like raw meat and blood drool this time.

I'd add The Auteurs to that list, on the basis of New Wave's cover photo alone.

I'd also add The Verve and Coldplay (seriously), since they're among the albums my wife & I always take with us on weekend getaways.

And The Bodice Rippers is a good band name. Apparently, this band from Oakland thinks so, too.

I'd also add the late, lamented Human Drama - and Johnny Indioviana's (sp?) successor Sound of the Blue Heart.

Kate Bush, for "Babushka" and "Wuthering Heights" alone - among others.

Err.... The Doors?

Julee Cruise's Floating Into The Night
Tarnation/ Paula Frazer
The Poppy Family/ Terry Jacks
Nina Simone At Town Hall
Jeff Buckley
Kelley Hogan
A good portion of Smog
This Mortal Coil
Big Star's Third
The Handsome Family
Low
Jim White



Post Edited (10-29-13 04:49)

There is a whole literary and musical tradition of "Southern Gothic" which is pretty much 90 degree transposed to the "Gothic" aesthetic. Handsome Family, that was a good addition specifically in this ilk.

Chris Isaak is a pretty obvious child of Orbison, but he may be too happy-go-lucky to fit. I may be confusing his personality with his music, though. I haven't actually listened to him for years so his music may be darker than I remember it being. "Wicked Game" would definitely qualify.

The Decemberists
Antony and the Jonsons
Zola Jesus, though I suppose she's actually just straight-up Goth.
American Music Club/Mark Eitzel
The Carpenters?



Post Edited (10-29-13 07:53)

Would any of these fit?

Starflyer 59
Wovenhand
Black Rebel Motorcycle Club
The The
Comsat Angels
The Chameleons
Smashing Pumpkins

I'd argue Wovenhand does.

It's a non-issue issue. I see where you're coming from and have myself bitched about the ridiculous amount of genres and subgenres in stuff like metal and electronica.

I just feel like all the artists on the list I put together have a common feel to them that makes them kindred spirits.

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It's a non-issue issue. I see where you're coming from and have myself bitched about the ridiculous amount of genres and subgenres in stuff like metal and electronica.

I just feel like all the artists on the list I put together have a common feel to them that makes them kindred spirits.

I get it. No biggie.

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And as long as you include Tammy Wynette in the genre, it's fine.

Exactly what the world needs now. More genres. More boundaries.

Fun-fun-fun!

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However. I've been laboring under the illusion that Meat Loaf is "classic rock."

I thought Echo & The Bunnymen was "post-punk." I guess that wasn't specific enough?

I thought Roy Orbison was simply old school "rock and roll." Is that no longer a genre?

Isn't "country rock" a fairly accurate description of Neko Case?

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And Interpol's genre is almost certainly "post-Joy Division." Or "compost-Joy Division?"

Not setting boundaries, but looking for commonalities.

It's much more restrictive and boundary setting to consider Echo & the Bunnymen as strictly "post-punk" and Neko Case as strictly "country-rock" and Roy Orbison as strictly "old school rock & roll" rather than look across set genre borders to see if they might have some sort of common ground.



Post Edited (10-29-13 10:21)

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while it's undeniably gothic its gothicness comes from the same place as romance novel covers rather than old horror movies - it's all heaving bosoms and heightened emotions and not so much vampires and Tim Burton movies.

Pardon my hasty conclusion. It must have been the words "rather" and "than" that threw me. That actually sounded like a boundary being drawn.

If you're looking for commonalities between the artists on that list, I'd imagine that there are much more obvious ones. Western scales and musical notation? English lyrics?

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"Post-punk" is a great, wide-open, minimally invasive tag that simply places a band both chronologically (and perhaps ideologically). It makes no attempt to draw marginal content distinctions such as any alleged cosmetic differences such as implying a difference between "goth" and "non-goth goth."

Following that line of alleged reasoning down the "non-goth goth" rabbit hole, might we not arrive at such captivating "genres" as:

- non-reggae reggae. I believe The Hooters had at least one tune that fits this genre.
- non-soul soul (See Simmons, Don "No Soul" and Bowie, David ... and every "New Romantic band ever)
- non-etc etc.

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It still feels like a reach.

If I see "post-punk" ... it's probably safe to assume it involves guitar rock. That's plenty of genre as far as I'm concerned.

Again, sorry I jumped to that hasty conclusion. Or was it a non-conclusive conclusion?

> And Interpol's genre is almost certainly "post-Joy Division." Or "compost-Joy Division?"

Great turn of phrase, Kay. Can I use that?

That sort of subdividing of genres goes way back, of course. Yeah, it is irritating.

When I was in a band, I'd answer the always-forthcoming question, "So what kind of music do you play?" with "Oh, we play Willie Nelson, Mozart, Van Halen ... you know, that sort of thing."

I'd say Rasputina, if not for the music, then at least for the clothes.

Don't forget the boss of Bodice-Ripping Rock: Bruce Springsteen!

Who leads me back to "Madame George" and "Cypress Avenue, what with it's harpsichords and "mansion on the hill." Van Morrison is definitely a Bodice-Ripper!

Just like Jack The Ripper in the Moulin Rouge...

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I disagree. The boss of bodice-ripping/non-goth goth music is (without a doubt) Tom Waits.

Think about it.

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Meanwhile, the reigning boss of goth rock (of any variety) still has to be

Tom Jones.

"It's not unusual to see me cry.
I want to die."

How much more "goth" can it get?