Re: Biggest Sell-out Singles by Worthwhile (up til that point) Artists

Heartbreak Beat - Psychedelic Furs
Eternal Flame - The Bangles
Why Can't I? - Liz Phair
Alive and Kicking - Simple Minds

OMD - If You Leave
Chili Peppers - Under The Bridge (and the video was what REALLY sucked)
Butthole Surfers - Pepper (tho the rest of the album wasn't quite as bad as the sorry ass single)

Cheap Trick - The Flame
Siouxsie - Kiss Them For Me
Roxy Music - Dance Away

Soul Asylum "Runaway Train"

dylan at newport

hey!

NP
davie allan and the arrows

Bowie - Blue Jean
Clash - Rock the Casbah
Alice Cooper - Only Women
Kiss - Beth (dawn of the the hair band ballad)
Devo - Whip It
Grateful Dead - Touch of Grey
Joy Division - Love Will Tear Us Apart (just checking to see if yr reading this)
Nirvana - Smells Like We're Going to Ruin Punk
REM - One I love, Stand, Orange Crush
Rolling Stones - Miss You
Simple Minds - Don't You Forget
Who - You Better You Bet

I agree with most of your picks but I will never understand the complaint about Rock The Casbah. Rock the Casbah is a really interesting song with a danceable beat and crazy lyrics about dancing on the minarets and calling out the mullahs to rock; complete with plenty of laser-gun sounds. If anything, it is overreaching and not selling-out. The Clash did not sell out. If anything they tried harder and harder until they imploded.

"rock the casbah" was supposed to be the hit but "should i stay or ..." ended up to be the sell out song.

i should say"should i stay" was the money maker, not the sell out, but i hear it in commercials.

The Damned - Grimly Fiendish (and Eloise)
The Jam – Beat Surrender + resultant Style Council flow on effect
The Models – Out of Mind Out of Sight (single AND album)

Rod Stewart-Do Ya Think I'm Sexy
Rolling Stones-Angie
The Beach Boys-Kokomo

beatles
let it be

"Rock The Casbah" didn't implode the Clash. Topper (who wrote the bulk of the song)'s mighty heroin addiction took care of that.

And he was a very underrated drummer himself.

Topper's not underrated in my book (which I actually haven't even written yet). I think he's the best punk drummer, period.

I'd argue that "Whip It" is a parody of hit singles, but what the heck.

Why Can't I -- Liz Phair (know it's been said, but has there been a more heartbreaking moment in alterna-pop in the last five years?)
The Only Flame In Town -- Elvis Costello (although the live, more bluesy version is pretty good)
She's Tight -- Actually, I'd argue any single Cheap Trick released after Dream Police is an attempted sell-out.
Is It Love? -- Gang Of Four
Free As A Bird -- The Beatles (only time I've felt they were issuing something for no good reason but to have new product out there. Even most of their product was bloody good)
Pride (In The Name Of Love) -- U2 (oh, yes it is)

Anyone wanna discuss the best single by a band that never tried for anything but commercial glory?

"Anyone wanna discuss the best single by a band that never tried for anything but commercial glory?"


I'll indulge my Kylie Minogue obsession here and toss "Can't Get You Out of My Head" into the ring - chances are it was never meant to be anything other than a catchy dance track but it's got so many creepy/obsessive undertones going on in it that it would be fascinating enough for someone to write an entire book about it. (Oh wait - Paul Morley did.) Plus that white get-up she wears in the video is hubba hubba x 10.

The Archies - Sugar Sugar
Jon Secada - Just Another Day



Post Edited (01-17-06 09:28)

> "Anyone wanna discuss the best single by a band that never
> tried for anything but commercial glory?"
>

>
> The Archies - Sugar Sugar


bang shang a lang

biggest sell-out singles by worthwhile

Lips like sugar -Echo & the Bunnymen
Original (W)rapper - Lou Reed

any new wave or hard rock group that put broadway choreography in their 80's videos

Great singles by never cared anyways

Cruel Summer -Bananarama
Ray of Light -Madonna

Green Day-Time of Your Life
Goo Goo Dolls-Iris (or was it Name? both suck)
Husker Du-Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely

"Anyone wanna discuss the best single by a band that never tried for anything but commercial glory?"

"Surrender" - Cheap Trick (actually, Blasmo, any Trick single after *Dream Police* has been an attempt to regain commercial footing, not to sell out)

"Shout It Out Loud" - Kiss (beats "Rock and Roll All Nite" by a mile)

"Bohemian Rhapsody" - Queen (everyone I've ever spoken to about this song either loves it or hates it -- a strong sign of a worthwhile piece of art, IMO)

"Rio" - Duran Duran

"Ballroom Blitz" - Sweet

"Anyone wanna discuss the best single by a band that never tried for anything but commercial glory?"

The Ronettes - Be My Baby

Primal Scream - Rocks

The Chills - Heavenly Pop Hit

The Sweet - Fox On The Run

" "Surrender" - Cheap Trick (actually, Blasmo, any Trick single after *Dream Police* has been an attempt to regain commercial footing, not to sell out)"

I agree, but I think our def's of selling out are a bit different. Actually, Surrender was the song I was thinking of when I asked the question, but then I remembered that Cheap Trick's first three albums are not only commercially savvy, but blasted smart. They seemed to be working a fine line between pop structure, energy, and smarts, so I think they were after more than just $ at first. I think they were trying to prove a rock group could be smart and rock at the same time. Of course, it doesn't hurt if you have two pretty boys in the band, and that one of those pretty boys has (had?) one of the greatest rock voices in existence. My point is that after Dream Police, with a few exceptions -- parts of Standing On The Edge, Next Position Please, all of the 2nd album titled Cheap Trick -- they sold out their smarts for commercial gain. Hearing them play something like "She's Tight" makes me feel sorry that the Budokan album sold them as a super sweet pop band, which they weren't, and that they were forced to "sell out" (my def is that you give up your personality for profit) by the record company and their own need for the commercial footing you're talking about. Yeah, profit = (sometimes) clout in the music biz.

"Surrender" is, by the way, one of the greatest works of art in the 20th century.

I used to think the same things, Blasmo, and to a certain degree, I still do. Don't get me wrong; I love Cheap Trick, and I agree with most of what you say above. But I don't think it was half so much that they were "working a fine line" (the operative word there being *working*) let alone "trying to prove" anything. I suspect it just sort of worked out that way -- that Cheap Trick was trying for commercial success, but just naturally had the smarts to go about it in a different way.

I'd go so far as to speculate that the band probably was as surprised -- even caught off guard -- by the success of *At Budokan* as anyone. That kind of success, of course, brings its own problems; a band that succeeds to such a level basically trades its old headaches for new ones. When it came time to follow through on this big success, Cheap Trick faltered, in part, because the guys' collective smarts didn't include the sense of calculation needed to stay balanced on that fine line.

It's been my understanding that, when *At Budokan* was released stateside, *Dream Police* already was in the can; the studio album's release was delayed for nearly a year when the live album took off. If this is true, then it makes *All Shook Up* the real follow-up to the live album.

Of course, this is just my speculation. Others on this board may know better -- or may even know Cheap Trick personally -- and be able to speak with more authority about this topic.

I'm kinda hoping Ira will jump in on this one, since he wrote the extensive notes to their highly recommended box set.

Well, I didn't want to drop any names ... you know how annoying such people can be at parties.

BEST sellout song ever:

Blondie - Heart of Glass

blondie used to do "heart of glass" in their very early days calling it "the disco song", it used to be a reggae beat song.
I remember seeing them play it and thought "someday this will be their biggest hit, take them right out of the punk scene and into the mainstram"

Just out of curiosity, John, how familiar were you with Blondie before "Heart of Glass"?

I was a late-comer to Blondie. I didn't know anything about them before *Parallel Lines*. My brother bought that album, and we saw Blondie on tour that year -- in fact, he saw them four shows in a row on that tour -- and I remember thinking, "Why do most of my friends listen to crap, when they could be listening to music by a group this talented and this cool?"

As I learned more about the band (mostly in the more mainstream rock mags of the day -- having not yet found a copy of *Trouser Press*), I got the impression that "Heart of Glass" was a sell-out move by a once edgy band. When I picked up their first two albums, though, "Heart of Glass" made more sense as part of their overall creative growth. It seemed less a sell-out than an attempt at something different, by a band that always had been willing to add new sounds and styles to its bag of tricks.

Sure, some artists do go out of their way to reach the big massive audience. Quite often, though, a sell-out is in the eye of the beholder. Gina Arnold put it thus: "It happens whenever a band's fan base expands to include more people than you're likely to ever be able to meet."

actually the first time I saw blondie was at Mother's on 22nd street in November of 1975 when I was an underage dolt who got in because my cousin's girlfriend's sister worked for County Line which had something to do with the band bookings at the club. I think they opened for either the Fast or The Miamis. Blondie was a pop band in the best sense, and Heart of Glass was not that far removed from Attatck of the Giant Ants, or Man Overboard , or In the Flesh. I went to see them at as many places as a 16 year old could finagle his way in for awhile and even got to talk to them and *yipers* smoked weed once with Chris Stein ( okay so it was my weed, but still) and Jimmy Destri which I tried to parlay into getting backstage at the Palladium when they opened for Iggy. I got my ass kicked and my leather jacket ripped and blood all over my homemade dICTATORS t-shirt. Ahhh good times.

Mother's btw had as many good bands as CBs did. Shit , at the end of'75/'76I saw Talking heads, Ramones, Wayne (not yet Jayne) County, Mink DeVille, Thee Heartbreeeeakers, Tuff darts (with Robert Gordon) and ,as I try to remember through the fried nuerons, I think I saw a band called the knickers which was Destri's old band featuring Ira ( not the yo lo tengo guy) Robbins open for the Boyz or Dodger or one of those. Could be wrong though.

Madisdadi, you're making me all misty eyed with your Mothers reminiscences. But it was on 23rd Street.

[www.blondie.net]


(Incidentally, there's a great Fast compilation everyone should own.)

And just to correct the historical record, Jimmy was a member of Knickers, which was actually founded by Jim Green and singer Steve Gallow. I joined them and Jim bowed out in favor of, as it happened, Jay Weiss, who had been in Milk and Cookies. We got Jimmy in the band thanks to Miki Zone of the Fast, who recommended him to us. Then he went and joined Blondie!

Incidentally, i got an email from a guy at WFMU yesterday who's posting some old Milk n Cookies stuff on their website.

[www.wfmu.org]

luv the cookies!


maybe we'll hear an 8 track of IR/Weiss demos on TP DJ night

that'll get steve up from FLA

done on Ian North's 4 track!

If Blondie had come from, say, SF, instead of CBGB's, it's unlikely they'd have been lumped with punk/new wave in the 1st place. I backtracked when Parallel Lines came out, as well. The first two LPs were closer to Sha Na Na than Ramones. Later LPs were pure pop (yeah, I'm only the ten thousandth person to say they were linked to the scene purely by time/space). Liked the band, though.
Hence, Heart of Glass = intentional, non sell-out, imo.

Always game for a Clash introspection/analyzation.

Rock the Casbah. Disco. As in, the anti-punk (voice turns deep and echoes). To fans of the band it was the worst digression imaginable (and somehow worse than previous dance excursions). Granted, digressions are almost the point in Clash-world, but this had the "now let's make money" stamp. It was the song that imploded the band because Strummer hated it, Jones liked it (his production) but quickly regretted it and would take BAD in a different direction (danceable but not inherently disco). It had to do with an indirect manifesto that was vague but yet a pact between the band and its fans and is better historically reviewed via British Press of the time. But the construction of the song is interesting, indeed, and there are fascinating components. The song started as a piano rag by Topper. That piano rag is obvious on the original vinyl LP but was mixed low for the single release. However, CD releases use the single mix!
Before one thinks "Rancid copied the Clash but stopped at Combat Rock", check out The Transplants 'Diamonds and Guns'. It features members of Rancid and the base of the song is a piano rag which mimics the line from the original version (and is a fun LP).
Rock the Casbah was the intended hit attempt by the band, not Should I Stay, which was an Album-radio hit before the record company released it as a single. Rock the Casbah, as a single, charted on the top 40 in Dec 82/Jan 83 for 15 weeks, reaching #8. Should I Stay didn't have this success on the US charts (but was popular in bar soundtracks/jukeboxes/ads/movies/etc.). It reached the Top 40 in the UK more than a decade later (after the implosion) when it was featured in an ad for "trousers".
The "laser-gun" sounds are prominent on the single/CD version.
Arguably, Rock the Casbah wasn't the first Clash track to receive a 12" disco remix. Mustapha Dance was released 18/6/82. The Magnificent Seven was released as The Magnificent Dance and as a 7" special remix the previous year. This is Radio Clash was arguably disco and the EP included 3 remixes, however, the interest at the time was less dance floor and more "Teach the punks to rap and scratch"

I always liked the live versions of Should I Stay though not particularly the one on the official live LP. Check out the Shea Stadium version.

There are many Clash tracks that are still vinyl-only as well as great bootleg tracks.

I like a lot of these so called sell out songs. Saying a band sells out is as about as useful as saying the tools I used to create this sculpture are worn out. I can't use them anymore. Those tools are obsolete. I can't create anything of value with them any longer. I need new tools to create something new and therefore of value. Something I create now is more important than something I already created. Bullshit, beacuse somebody, somewhere is going to say you're old creative stuff is better than your new-hanger on stuff.

The band (individual) was peaking when they weren't or were high.

I like pop music and i think everyone should like it too.

Just imagine, all of us born to write the greatest pop song ever.

You'll be rich and famous too. I only dream that you would write my song too.

Everything you say is true, Steve. And therefore false.
It's a nice-looking sculpture, but it's a sell-out.
You used to sculpt a piece that only I could understand.
You obviously molded this piece, not for the culturally elite, but for the obsequious masses who want to ogle, not for enlightenment, but for fleeting and precariously vicarious entertainment lacking emotional investment.
Now I have to share you with the mediocrity-based tastes of mid-America (slash England slash Australia) instead of with a few like-minded individuals and that makes me disillusioned with your intentions; particularly the intention-set I had ascribed for you.
Because the sculpture uses form and lines already proven to attract the casual viewer, I know you prescribed a formula with the intent of increasing monetary income. This is mutually exclusive of design for purely artistic reasons; previously the reason you attracted a fan base.
Or, from a Pagan standpoint, you fucked-over the muse and now you must pay.



Post Edited (01-21-06 17:30)

I listened to the plimsouls '99 (right?) album the other day, clem burke was on the kit. I'm still hard.

BRONCOES in '07!

Drummers as a whole seem to be underrated, and Clem Burke is the most underrated of all. He's easily one of the ten best of all time.

Jaki Liebezeit is number one.

I actuaLLY paid hard earned cash monay to see Chequered Past coz Clem was on the traps.
Had to be physically held back from clocking Micheal Des Barres between the horns for his vapid Paul Rogerisms, and I used to love the guy in Silverhead and Detective.
Damn talk about missed opportunities!

Saw them live touring behind that great CD. They put on a hell of a show, with Pete and the guys really sweating it up front while Clem Burke -- maybe the best rock and roll drummer ever -- bashed away like he was having the time of his life. An hour and a half of extreme joy, and in OKC, to boot.

I really understand and appreciate your viewpoint, Paganizer. And therefore it sucks.

Tears For Fears- "Everybody Wants To Rule The World"

X- "Burning House Of Love"

Divinyls- "When I think About You I Touch Myself"

David Bowie- "Let's Dance"

Joan Jet- "I Love Rock and Roll"

I agree, "Heart of Glass" was definatley a natural progression for Blondie. Always experimenting with different pop/rock gernes, Blondie's disco take on heart of glass was one that worked for the band.

speaking of sell-out, I saw X play said song on a Dick Clark summer music special. They were in front of a sand dune with surfboards! I kept hopin to see Frankie and Annette twisting in the background.

The irony of mentioning the Divinyls track xhead is that it made me finally aware of the title and artist of a track that I like which I've been trying to know for a long time now. Thanks.

With "sell-out" songs it boils down to the intent of the artist in creating it. If the artist copied a formula in writing the track to have a hit and didn't write it from an honest, artistic base, then that definitely is a sell-out as we know it. But if a musician or group happen to come up with a great song that appeals to a wider audience, no fault should be laid on the songwriter's door. U2's "With or Without You" and R.E.M.'S "The One I Love" are two good examples. Massively popular which broke the respective groups to a worldwide audience, one cannot accuse those bands and the songs of being sell-outs as the tracks are among the best in terms of quality and relevance. And there's no doubt that the group's did not have a hit in mind when writing and recording those songs.

Quote

U2's "With or Without You" and R.E.M.'S "The One I Love" are two good examples.

...of changing their sound
Just would like to point out the abrupt change in style REM managed in guitar/vocals to get that hit. Perfect example of... sell-out (from plectrum jangle-pop to power chords; from mumbled obscurities to sense - true, the joke was on the listener but also calculated)
U2's Josh Tree is so far from "Three", "Boy", or even "War", I don't even know where to start.
REM and U2 are probably just bad examples of the subject since they're both muti-massive sellers and have been in the mainstream for so long.
But I just won't have it.
Now watch this board typify. I will take them blame on this one.

What's wrong with change?

Glad I could help you find that Divinyls song praganizer.


Many popular songs, including the ones I mentioned have an anthemic hook, which propels them into mainstream popularity. (or at least attempts to) They are formula and and sometimes musically unchallenging. Like Kyle Minouge sings, "Just Can't getcha out of my head" Not always a bad thing, but if you follow a bands career and realize that a song is going after $$$ wheather it has artistic merit or not is still a sell out of sorts. I think a lot of the bands who have had break through mainstream hits in this discussion have contributed something musically significant. We all recognize and respect this, which is why it's difficult to hear them do something pedestrian. There are always those unintentional fluke hits the world takes into thier hearts for whatever reason as well. Keep listening. ;~)



Post Edited (02-06-06 07:26)

Nothing is wrong with change, certainly, and R.E.M. had most definitely begun to change long before "Lifes Rich Pageant", so I agree that it wasn't exactly an abrupt change there. And nor, at the time at least, did I count "JT" to be a sell-out from U2. Yeah, there were a couple of songs that sounded like they could be singles, but they didn't at the time sound like they were DESIGNED to be be sell-out singles. In fact, though I didn't really like the direction R.E.M. and U2 had taken with those two albums, I believed then that both bands were sorta reaching mainstream acceptance on their own terms. And there's nothing really wrong with that. Would that Marshall Crenshaw had ever done so....