Re: IS NEW VINYL HERE TO STAY?

Record companies seem to be pressing more vinyl records than they did a few years ago. Is it a fad, or are new records here to stay?

Well if you also notice the price of vinyl editions of new releases, it's here to stay, as there's usually unfortunately about a +%40 premium for the stuff over the same new CD release.

What I'm interested in hearing more of tho, is how the reissue/remaster vinyl releases compare with originals. In most cases I do prefer my vinyl copies to CD versions.

And in case anyone needs a valuation of your collection (for insurance purposes!). =)

I think it is here to stay, for many of the same reasons I outlined in my prediction for the future of the record industry from some months back. Too lazy to look that post up to link to it, but it was that in the years ahead the market for physical copies of recorded music will follow the same paradigm as the comic book market has over the last three decades - the number of outlets to buy CDs/albums will continue to shrink drastically and will eventually stabilize around what are basically specialty stores that cater to the hardcore collectors. Just like comics used to be found in every drug store, dime store and book store but now are mostly found in comics shops (although they're making a comeback into places like Borders), CD sections in big box stores and mall music stores will continue to dwindle and disappear except for mega-selling top 40 hits, leaving the smaller, mostly independent record stores that manage to avoid being killed off by downloading and the big boxes (before they phase out their music sections) as the outlets that remain to cater to the collectors who like the experience of owning the actual physical album.

And since vinyl is something that is appealing to hardcore collectors, it will continue to be produced and will actually end up regaining market share compared to CDs, as the casual collectors will abandon CDs and go to strictly downloading.

Yeah I think what we're looking at here is the full cafeteria option of recorded music. I think there's more life left in the CD than most simply because it fills the niche of people who like physical product but not vinyl (i.e. NOT hardcore fans), the range of consumers is varied now in terms of what they desire.

I would have no problem shelling out more for an all time fave album on vinyl, but for a new album I am far more likely to buy a cd rather than just downloading (depending on the degree of how much I like it).

For new releases "loaded cd's" - are likely to keep that format around as well - throw in a bonus dvd or whatever. Unlike previous eras the recorded formats no longer are in conflict with each other - they all can be adapted to audio files, so there's a scenario where they all mutually coexist for quite some time.



Post Edited (11-13-08 04:42)

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I would have no problem shelling out more for an all time fave album on vinyl, but for a new album I am far more likely to buy a cd rather than just downloading (depending on the degree of how much I like it).

Soon you're not going to have a choice. I'm already seeing releases that are download only, and many indie labels are now only releasing their stuff on vinyl or online.

Whodda thunk vinyl would outlive CDs?



Post Edited (09-07-09 23:16)

Thanks for the link, mim716. I have a bunch of old albums I'd like to sell. I wonder if they have an accurate way to price local indie records that only got a small pressing. There were a bunch of bands in the D.C. area, in the late 70's and early 80's, that put out some great records. A lot of them used to be sold at a defunct local chain called Penguin Feather. Anybody heard of The Slickee Boys, The Razz, Minor threat? Most punk fans are probably aware of Bad Brains from D.C.

Penguin Feather - That was a great store. One of the few records stores that the staff actually treated the customers as if they knew something about music. To a young teenager just starting to branch out into music besides top40, I really appreciated it. Though the store's reputation was as a head shop, I always found good music there (bought a lot of National Lampoon records there - surprise! surprise!). I was too timid to venture over to the paraphenalia section.

I went there once with my grandmother (who was extremely conservative, the kind that thought guys with long hair were all drug addicts) because she wanted to see what I did with my christmas money from her. While I shopped, she read 'National Lampoon' completely oblivious to the lampoon part of it and kept telling my mother how shocking the stories were in the news section.

The Penguin Feather staff was pretty knowledgable about music. I remember the head shops, too. Didn't they start getting heat for them during the Reagan years?

We live in a digital world. There's no way vinyl ever regains the same market share of CD's. Especially since most albums are now recorded digitally anyway.

They had a segment on some science show on public tv where they had a band record their album both analog and digital. The band then had to take a blindfold test to answer how different segments of their album were recorded during playback. They were only correct about 50% of the time. In other words, no better than a coin flip.

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There's no way vinyl ever regains the same market share of CD's. Especially since most albums are now recorded digitally anyway.

What difference does that make? A lot of records in the late 80's were cut from digital DAT masters.

We've all read/heard it discussed many times, whether analog is an improvement over digital ... applying both to recording and playback technology. To me, vinyl LPs and CDs sound different, but one doesn't necessarily sound better than the other.

I had a neighbor who swore up & down that vinyl sounds much better than compact disc. He had a few albums on both formats, and played them back to back for me, to show me what he was talking about. I could hear the differences, but couldn't say for sure that one format was definitely better than the other.

Then he told me about the stereo equipment he had ... including a turntable that had set him back $3,000. (And since he worked at a stereo store, he'd gotten the sucker wholesale.)

I told him the discussion may as well be over right there. "I can go to Target and spend a hundred bucks for a CD player, and it'll sound fine. It may not be top-of-the-line, it may not have all the bells & whistles, but it'll sound all right. But if I'm spending three grand, I don't care whether it's a turntable, a CD player, a tape deck or what. For that kind of money, I want a lot more than just great sound reproduction."

hallelujah brother Delvin,

I totally agree that it's about the music first and not the format - I simply want it to sound as good as possible to myself first.

I also agree that vinyl sounds different and not necessarily always better. At some point though, convenience was a big issue. I remember circa '75 the biggest technological upgrade was getting a turntable that had the feeder mechanism on the spindle, so I had the option of uninterrupted listening of around 8! sides in a row - major deal eventually when ladies were over! =)
Later on, when that turntable went to heaven, I 'upgraded' to a pair of Technic 1200's, I still ended up playing more CDs over time, simply because decent CD carousel players were commonplace - and long stretch listening (until the drugs wore off) was practical. The general market issue of new releases not showing up on vinyl didn't help.


Secondly was the need to maintain obnoxiously huge collections without destroying sanity or relationships under a mountain of plastic.
At one time I had over 10K albums, with which I was regularly moving during uni days. You'll never get people to help you more than once when they know you have that much vinyl.
One summer move resulted in a wide 250 crate warping in the back of a hatchback. I had been living on Ramen noodles most of the time, so to lose several hundred bucks worth of treasure was just too much. I spent the next 1-2 years liquidating most of it, keeping about 300-500 and replacing many with CDs of which I still ended up accumulating around 5K+.

The past years, I've accepted MP3's as a practical matter. Back around '97-98 I discovered them through a bunch of rare Zappa stuff (including complete Beat the Boots!) online via a friend, and have never really looked back. Initially I found the sound quality terrible, but then figured out the whole variety of encoding quality variations.
I spent a decent amount of time doing my own blind 'taste-tests' until I couldn't distinguish between my own CDs and the MP3's that I made from them (ripped at 224 CBR or V0 VBR). I then spent an unhealthy amount of time converting and meticulously tagging/scanning all of my plastic and have been selling it off ever since (with the original threat of losing my then girlfriend to jewel case overload otherwise).
I've tried the same comparison tests with a lot of my anal audiophile friends, and most couldn't tell the difference any better than T.V.'s coin toss example above. One thing I can really recommend for anyone who uses a computer to listen to MP3's (or watch movies) is to check this out. It was the biggest improvement I made to my setup which is basically computer to amp to studio monitor speakers.

I have to say, being able to play my entire collection 'on random' is pretty sweet and it's a higher tech solution to my childhood dream of owning a jukebox - and a helluva lot more portable.
I still may get a proper juke someday, as I still have a few boxes of essential 7"s that I'll probably be buried with; nothing will ever replace, much less recreate the joy of a 7" single.

I haven't bought a lot of vinyl over the past twenty years. I bought my first CD player in the late 80's. The few vinyl records I've bought were a handful of collectible, old records that came my way and were hard to pass up, such as some original 1st pressings of Beatles' records, that were in great condition. I 've bought even less new vinyl, most notably a recent reissue of PiL's Metal Box album. I only bring up the topic because I wonder where this audience for vinyl records comes from in a digital age. Hell, I don't even play the records I have in my collection. I might as well sell them.

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I've tried the same comparison tests with a lot of my anal audiophile friends, and most couldn't tell the difference any better than T.V.'s coin toss example above.

I doubt even the most golden pair of ears could tell the difference between a properly-encoded mp3 at 320 kbps and the source material. However, lossy formats like mp3 can still be problematic if ever you ever have to reencode them to another lossy format, as might happen if you were doing a podcast or creating a video. When I have the choice, I'll take a lossless format like .flac or .ape over .mp3.

Plus, I have to admit that I'm a purist and that just knowing that mp3 throws away most of the audio bothers me, even if I can't hear a difference.

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I told him the discussion may as well be over right there. "I can go to Target and spend a hundred bucks for a CD player, and it'll sound fine. It may not be top-of-the-line, it may not have all the bells & whistles, but it'll sound all right. But if I'm spending three grand, I don't care whether it's a turntable, a CD player, a tape deck or what. For that kind of money, I want a lot more than just great sound reproduction."

You don't have to drop 3 grand for a decent turntable. There's lots of used bargains to be had, and you can get a good one new for between $200-400.

As far as differences in sound, what was your neighbor comparing? Vinyl records are often mastered differently than CDs due to the idiosyncrasies of the format.

> At some point though, convenience was a big issue.

That's why my wife prefers CDs: because they're small enough for her to handle with one hand.

Good point, Delvin. As well as being convenient, CD's, don't wear out just from playing them on a repeated basis. You really have to throw them around or generally treat them badly to hurt them.

To me, the best things about albums: The cover and sleeve art. Trying to resist reading the lyrics ahead of what was playing at the time. The messages sometimes scrawled on the blank strip at the center of the record before the middle insert. I know this is still there with cds but its too small for my bad eyes to appreciate.

Another thing about albums was that if forced me to listen to the whole album at once. It was too much trouble to skip over a song that I didn't like or wasn't in the mood for unless it was the last on one the side. Which is probably why I didn't resist the move to cds and hardly listen to my records now (though I still won't buy replacement cds because, hey I've got it on record. Cheap bastard that I am).

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Another thing about albums was that if forced me to listen to the whole album at once

That's a really good point too, that touches on John's comment about who buys vinyl these days.

If you were raised on vinyl, you have a much deeper sense of an album as a concept than listeners today. There was definitely more thought put into the running order of tracks, especially as albums started and finished twice - the physical experience involved theatrics.

The lengths were also more concise, which I think was better - just because a CD can fit a bunch of b-side filler at the end of the album, doesn't necessarily mean it should creatively (although I have appreciated that at times as a consumer). Ironically, when I convert my CDs to MP3s, I tend to split the bonus stuff off of the releases back into their individual single sources, when I tag them to keep the original album's integrity.

There has always been a general audience for singles over albums, but it's really gotten ridiculous with iTunes "only buy the song you want". If an artist can't manage an album that isn't mostly keeper, then I'll simply not bother with them rather than piecemeal album tracks.

I don't like when old albums are changed, when they are reissued on CD, with remixes, outtakes or b-sides. The original mix, track order and artwork should remain unchanged, as far as I'm concerned. It represents the artist's original vision of the work. If the artist has outake material, and other tracks, etc., which merits release, it should be on a sperate album or CD of that kind of material. The Beatles' Anthology series, and The Who's Odds and Sods are good examples of of a way issue outake material. It's all in one place with notes giving the historical context of the material that true fans of the artist would really like to have as an album.

Please do not try to scientifically dissuade us. Without something to romanticize, life is not worth living. Vinyl kicks ass. Its survival into the age where all information -- audio, video, or otherwise -- is humdrum and accessible to any suburban tweener is a testament to persistent humanity.

I loaded up on new vinyl on the last Record Store Day. Average price per record approx $14. This is what everyone gets for Christmas regardless of whether they own a turntable (about all I can afford now) One more anachronistic round of presents...



Post Edited (11-12-08 23:34)

the 220g vinyl certainly feels substantial, so it has to be better, right?

it is funny to present one of these platters to a guest and say, "feel this dude, it's 220g vinyl!".

There seems to be a trend now of packaging either a cd-version or a download code of the release along with the vinyl purchase.

Some records definitely sound better than others, but i guess so do cd's.

Some of my older Led Zeppelin and Queen LP's have poor sound, but they are still cool. Is it because they are just old and overplayed? Is it the flimsy vinyl?

ps--there is definitely something to be said for not having to get up and change sides, if, uh, one is occupied, so run the ipod/cd when getting busy.

generally...
any generals here?

Join the military...mjm

THATS where your audience is.

I got a proto type sony that only skips if the floorboards rattle.

generally speaking.

Aren't most soldiers into metal?

most soldiers are into drugs john.

Shure I'll elaborate.

John, while i served, I can tell you that I personally garnished fiveXseven sheets of acid from our billets.
Bongs from six inches, twenty four to my personal favourite, three feet.
Too bad the smoke was mostly lame.

But this is a new and six year long war.

Reference the movie 'deer hunter' to appreciate strung out soldiers in the 'middle' east for an understanding.

These guys are fucking walking corpses.

No wonder THEY don't want to bring them home.



Post Edited (11-23-08 00:26)

Were you in Iraq or Afghanistan? What do you think of Bush and his decision to go to war in those countries?

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Vinyl kicks ass. Its survival into the age where all information -- audio, video, or otherwise -- is humdrum and accessible to any suburban tweener is a testament to persistent humanity.

That's an optimistic view of the future you have there, considering we're in the beginning stages of the Greatest Depression and WWIII may be right around the corner.

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There has always been a general audience for singles over albums, but it's really gotten ridiculous with iTunes "only buy the song you want". If an artist can't manage an album that isn't mostly keeper, then I'll simply not bother with them rather than piecemeal album tracks.

I once read that the reason so many major label top 40 albums have one or two good songs and then the rest is filler is because the record company hired someone to write the good songs in order to sell an otherwise lackluster album.



Post Edited (09-08-09 01:33)

I grew up on vinyl. Was thrilled when i got a linear tracking turntable which enabled moving ahead or back. Loved cassettes for their portability: the walkman was a blessing, and i invested serious time transfering my LP's onto high quality tapes. Took a job at a gas-station in order to hoard cash for a portable cassette player. It even had a (!)corded remote.

When CD's came out, well, that was exciting! Shit, i remember that first player retailed for something like $800! A life savings. (i know "audiophiles" plunk down way way more for super high end players). No more scratches and pops, and no more hassle! Never bought another record.

Until guess what? I built myself a new stereo system. I put in the high-end cd transport and DAC unit, network player linked to computer, Ipod hook-up with high quality digital files, and so on.

Not until i added a new turntable was the system truly appealing though. I cannot say that the vinyl LP's sound any better. I like to think that they do, but, who knows. The footfalls can sometimes be heard, so that is something i guess.

When guests see my rig they are invariably fascinated by the turntable and the physical act of placing the needle on some vinyl. I joke and tell them they have to sit through at least a whole side, so make a careful choice ...there is no remote!

At my place, Ipod gets the most use, turntable gets the looks from the girls.

It looks like you have a nice stereo system. Do you only play your old records on the turntable, or do you buy new ones? Do the new, more expensive LP's sound better, no pops or skips? I grew up on vinyl, too. I just wonder if it's not time to give up the ghost and stop pressing them. Why not bring back the Model-T if we're going to get retro?

I play new vinyl which seems to benefit from the medium, such as the latest Jenny Lewis and Cat Power's Jukebox from last year, which is presented in an attractive package.

Older records come on when i have guests over who appreciate it.

I think CD's will die out before vinyl, which is collectible and at times fascinating to inspect (lyrics, photos, ephemera). I was just looking at an insert included with my 1978 Tom Petty LP Damn The Torpedos: there is an ad inside the sleeve offering a 4-sided compilation "all for less than 4 packs of cigarettes"! When was the last time you heard the price of cigarettes used in marketing copy?

I imagine some photographers still use film, and for sure there are lots of old fashioned cars driven about by hobbyists, and so on.

I like to play LP's sometimes, but the party's gonna benefit from my carefully assembled iPod playlist.

Metallica released their latest album in two different vinyl formats, a standard 33 1/3 rpm double Lp, and a five record set of the same material mastered at 45 rpm. I haven't heard it. I wonder if the 45 rpm version sounds really good. That album's also available as a single CD and as an MP3 download. Do you think someone will try to revive the cassette or 8-track? 78 rpm shellac records, anybody? I guess all of them are good if they sell records.

> Do you think someone will try to revive the cassette or
> 8-track? 78 rpm shellac records, anybody? I guess all of them
> are good if they sell records.


cassette culture seems to be alive and well. they still sound like shit, but i guess it's also still easy and cheap, go and do it...or something like that. i do not approve. but i'll hop aboard the new vinyl is sounding better than ever train! possibly because the people doing it now aren't trying to cut corners using that cheap flimsy vinyl so many of my older records were pressed onto.

Do those 200 gram records sound any better than the old vinyl of the 70's? I remember the last few years of vinyl, before CD's, were rampant with really thin records that occassionally skipped on the first play. I'm referring to major label U.S. pressings. What were they pressing them with at that point? I had some older records that I aquired from the 50's and 60's that sounded great. They were thicker. Those albums were from before my time but great. I was a teenager in the 70's.

It was the 1973 oil crisis (A.K.A. the Arab Oil Embargo) that started the demise of phonograph records. The cost of crude oil skyrocketed, causing the price of all petrochemicals (like the vinyl used to make records) to soar. Records use a lot of premium virgin vinyl, and record makers scrimped on plastic to keep costs down. Records got flimsy and many bad discs were pressed, with warping being a common problem. Retailers had lots of returned discs, causing some smaller shops to have financial problems.

By the time oil prices started to drop in the early 1980s Compact Discs players were becoming affordable and CDs started to displace LP phonograph records in the market. CD players offered a significant improvement in the accuracy of reproduction over comparably priced turntables and had the advantage of being more portable and easier for stores to stock. When car CD players became available CDs allowed you to play your music in your house and your car and quickly outsold cassette tape players.

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When car CD players became available CDs allowed you to play your music in your house and your car and quickly outsold cassette tape players.

Yeah, good point - autos are the primary place most people hear music, so as MP3s take over the vehicles, goodbye to CDs?

forum isn't letting me edit posts - 4th time that's happened now.

anyways - I hadn't thought about it, but satellite radio is probably a bigger factor than downloads for cutting into the industry's pie.

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I hadn't thought about it, but satellite radio is probably a bigger factor than downloads for cutting into the industry's pie.

Doesn't the industry get a form of royalties when its material is aired on the radio?

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By the time oil prices started to drop in the early 1980s Compact Discs players were becoming affordable and CDs started to displace LP phonograph records in the market.

That's not quite how I remember it. CDs were introduced once in the early to mid 80's and the format flopped. It wasn't until the late 80's/early 90's, when the major distributors effectively forced vinyl off the market, that CDs came to dominate.

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CD players offered a significant improvement in the accuracy of reproduction over comparably priced turntables and had the advantage of being more portable and easier for stores to stock.

Unfortunately, CDs were also considerably more expensive to the consumer.

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When car CD players became available CDs allowed you to play your music in your house and your car and quickly outsold cassette tape players.

I don't recall car CD players becoming common until the 90's. Even in the late 90's, a lot of cars still came with a cassette player.

Igor_Alexander wrote:

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That's not quite how I remember it. CDs were introduced once in
the early to mid 80's and the format flopped. It wasn't until
the late 80's/early 90's, when the major distributors
effectively forced vinyl off the market, that CDs came to
dominate.

Not really. CDs were introduced in October 1982 but weren't hugely popular until at least 1985-86 after the US had pulled out of early 1980s recession and the prices of players started to drop to a reasonable consumer price point (under $200). Devices like the Sony CD Walkman ("Diskman") introduced in 1984 made the format very popular, particularly after Sony incorporated ESP (Electronic Skip Protection) to make the unit resistant to motion-induced dropouts. It was only after a large number of consumers had purchased their CD players and new media purchases started to shift away from vinyl records that the distributors took their cue and hastened the shift to compact discs.

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> CD players offered a significant improvement in the
> accuracy of reproduction over comparably priced turntables and
> had the advantage of being more portable and easier for stores
> to stock.

Unfortunately, CDs were also considerably more expensive to the
consumer.

You are correct. Nonetheless, consumers eagerly bought CDs. For years it vexed and puzzled me, particularly when the quality of the audio on most early CDs was atrocious.

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> When car CD players became available CDs allowed you to
> play your music in your house and your car and quickly outsold
> cassette tape players.

I don't recall car CD players becoming common until the 90's.
Even in the late 90's, a lot of cars still came with a cassette
player.

When I bought my Toyota Camry in 1994 the shift to CD players was already well under way. Almost equal numbers of CD and cassette players were sold. Within a couple of years the majority of new autos were selling with CD players. Yes, you could still choose between a CD or cassette deck, but by 1990 most purchasers were choosing the CD player.

Note that in 1994, when given the choice between a CD or cassette player for my car, I chose the cassette deck. Why? Because I owned a TDK 3 head cassette tape deck I could use to dub to tape my records and the few CDs I had at the time. I didn't have enough CDs to justify a car CD player, and it wasn't practical or economical to burn your own CDs until many years later.

Catch the latest Metallica tour: Metallica Salutes The 1800s.

i thought that joke was funny when I was 8.

I'm installing a reel to reel in my car. Is the new Metallica out in that format?

> Metallica released their latest album in two different vinyl formats ... That album's also
> available as a single CD and as an MP3 download. Do you think someone will try to revive
> the cassette or 8-track?

Considering the backlash Metallica's been receiving, it may be only a matter of time.

What about a revival of the 8-Track? Is that going too far as nostalgia?

If you don't already know the answer to this question then you never owned an 8-Track tape player.

Of course there will be no 8-Track revival, as there will be no revival of the Edison Phonograph Cylinder. 8-track players were atrocious mechanical monstrosities that, had sanity prevailed over marketing, would never have been produced. This is why they are now mere tokens of dated, lobotomized mid-century consumer culture, mostly relegated to establishing shots in 60s/70s period movies.

When auto cassette players appeared 8-track players disappeared as quickly as Mr. Phelps reel-to-reel tape deck.

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Of course there will be no 8-Track revival, as there will be no revival of the Edison Phonograph Cylinder. 8-track players were atrocious mechanical monstrosities that, had sanity prevailed over marketing, would never have been produced.

What was wrong with them? My recollection is that they sounded better than cassettes. Didn't they use wider tape, or run at a faster speed?

Igor_Alexander wrote:

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> Of course there will be no 8-Track revival, as there
> will be no revival of the Edison Phonograph Cylinder. 8-track
> players were atrocious mechanical monstrosities that, had
> sanity prevailed over marketing, would never have been
> produced.

What was wrong with them? My recollection is that they sounded
better than cassettes. Didn't they use wider tape, or run at a
faster speed?

I recommend you read Wikipedia's 8-track tape entry. My experience was that most 8-track players were cheap, sloppily made units that had high levels of wow and flutter, lots of hiss and attenuated treble. They used a crude transport mechanism that made accurate control of tape speed impossible. The stereo 8 track layout reduced the usable track size, reducing fidelity and increasing tape noise. And the need to fit music onto small loops butchered albums. Once Japanese manufacturers started making huge improvements to cassette technology the 8-track was toast.

Interesting to read Ian MacKaye's take on this same topic:

IM: Of course. The download thing is the new format, and I don’t know what Queen is doing, but we’re putting out a record that’s vinyl and download only. Because I think CDs – people just aren’t interested in them anymore. Some of them still sell. It’s like a cassette. There was a period of time where every band’s cassette sold, and then there was a period when only the most popular band’s cassettes sold, and there was no point in making cassettes for the smaller bands. It’s the same way now with CDs. Like, we’ll still sell CDs of Minor Threat. But the smaller bands, there’s no point in it, because people just don’t want them. And the people who are buying music by the smaller, more obscure bands are happy with the vinyl and the download. So we’ll do it. This is it. We’re just being responsive and pragmatic – and, of course, economical.

from this excelllent recent interview.

Maybe everyone should say fuck it and kill every format except for downloads. There's no longer any practical reason to press a record, CD or tape. I still buy CD's just because my CD player still works fine. When it dies, I'll probably give up on the format, like I did records. My last turntable died in the 1980's, and I never replaced it. CD's were available, and I switched right over to them. As I've noted elsewhere, I've bought a handful of records since then. I only bought them because they were collectable. I should probably sell them because I don't play them, having no turntable. The thing that surprises me is that the vinyl trend didn't die when oil got up to over $147.00 a barrel, back in July. Shouldn't expensive oil be the final nail in the coffin for vinyl records? I find it hard to believe that it makes any economical sense to press vinyl records.

Read this:
Will oil prices sink the vinyl record boom?

Thanks for the link, Nile. I read the article. It makes me think that I should find out if I can make a profit from melting down my old records to sell the oil in them.

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Maybe everyone should say fuck it and kill every format except for downloads. There's no longer any practical reason to press a record, CD or tape.

You've just explained in a nutshell why the record industry is on its deathbed. Mp3 is king, and the majority of people don't pay for their mp3s.

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The thing that surprises me is that the vinyl trend didn't die when oil got up to over $147.00 a barrel, back in July. Shouldn't expensive oil be the final nail in the coffin for vinyl records? I find it hard to believe that it makes any economical sense to press vinyl records.

I think it's one of those things like how fluctuations in the price of gold don't seem to affect the price of gold fillings or how fluctuations in the price of silver don't seem to affect the price of photographic film. Maybe they stockpile the raw materials when they're cheap so they can keep their prices down during the spikes.



Post Edited (09-08-09 03:19)

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There was a period of time where every band’s cassette sold, and then there was a period when only the most popular band’s cassettes sold, and there was no point in making cassettes for the smaller bands.

The nice thing about cassettes for smaller bands is that it wasn't a problem to do a run of say, 100 or 200. A lot of CD pressing plants wouldn't consider an order of less than 1000.

I remember being really pissed off when I had to take back a brand new copy of John Lennon and Yoko Ono's Double Fantasy LP in 1980. I had to take it back twice, I think. It skipped on the first play on two different copies of a brand new LP. I remember it was a very thin pressing on Geffen Records. It was not the last such experience I had with a new LP in the 1980's. One might ask if my stylus was worn. No. I used to change it pretty regularly back then. The point of bringing this incident up is that it shows me why people were probably quick to switch from LP's to CD's in the 1980's. There might be great new pressings of vinyl, but they were pretty shabby back in the 1980's. I don't really get the new love for vinyl, unless it's just nostalgia. I don't have nostalgia for skips.

> I don't really get the new love for vinyl,
> unless it's just nostalgia. I don't have nostalgia for skips.


oddly, i'm having more trouble with skippy cds than skippy vinyl lately. fortunately, what skips in one player usually doesn't skip in another. but i never know which player will like which cd until they hit a snag. the new charlie pickett and prisonshake cds have been especially problematic. skipping in multiple players. already had all but two of those pickett songs on vinyl and also picked up the prisonshake double lp, so i'm dealing, but still...sheeeeesh!

I've found that the very few experiences that I've had with a CD skipping had to do with vibration. I am referring to a table top CD player. There were times when I moved my speakers around, and a couple of CD's started skipping. It happened when I was playing them really loud. I played around with the speakers and volume and eliminated the skip on the same disc that gave me the problem. I moved the speakers further away from the stereo system, and it seemed to stop the skipping because the volume wasn't creating a vibration that went back up to the CD player to cause it to skip. Before moving the speakers, I also backed the volume down on that particular disc, and it stopped skipping. I moved the speakers further away from the stereo system, permanently, once I figured out the problem because I like to play my music loud, sometimes. Oracle makes a CD player that has some way to clamp down a CD to eliminate skips. I have not heard it. Some high-end turntables also have clamps to eliminate vibration.

Generally CD players don't wear out, rather their lasers go out of alignment, the first signs of which are more skips.
If you're a bit handy, you can always just open it up and just try cleaning the lens with an eyeglass cloth and remove any internal dust.

If you shelled out a lot for your player, it's worth the $30-50 to get it recalibrated. I did that once about 10 years back and am still on the same Denon carousel nearly 20 years now.

My DVDs freeze, but my CDs never skip. For that, I guess I'm thankful.

John Brown wrote:

"... I don't really get the new love for vinyl, unless it's just nostalgia. I don't have nostalgia for skips."

Which reminded me that my copy of "Fall In A Hole" on vinyl has a big, fat skip right smack dab in the middle of "The Man Whose Head Expanded."

It sucks-ahh!

Is it available on CD or MP3?

Dear john (brown),

Don't cry. I love you.

(secret probational info: A worn stylus quickly makes some groovy friends!

Dear Steve,

Are those friends groovy in an Austen Powers kind of way?



Post Edited (11-19-08 23:31)

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A worn stylus quickly makes some groovy friends!

Oddly enough, I cleaned out the car this evening and found a cassette case of "London Calling" that had a wayward (???) copy of "Queen's Greatest Hits" inside it. No telling how long it had languished under the passenger seat. Several months, at least. Ahem.

Along with that and all of the other junk, there was a desiccated fortune cookie that had that EXACT phrase on the fortune!

... So weird that it defies belief. Certainly.

Is vinyl here to stay this time? It never went away. I never stopped buying vinyl and didn't even own a CD player until 1999, when I felt compelled to buy one because someone had given me a CD that I really wanted to listen to.

Sure, buying vinyl new after the majors tried to phase it out in the 90's wasn't as easy as before, but there were always mailorder outlets that catered to vinyl enthusiasts and in the larger cities, actual record stores. Vinyl sections started to reappear in chain record stores around the mid-90's and have continued to grow since. Vinyl never went out of fashion among audiophiles, dance music DJs, and in the underground/indie music scene.

As to how long vinyl will last, one thing that should be kept in mind is that a lot of the specialized equipment used in the handful of record pressing plants left in the US and Europe hasn't been manufactured in decades and will eventually wear out. So unless vinyl makes a big enough comeback to justify the investment needed for rebuilding this equipment, vinyl's days are numbered (though I would give it at least another 20 years, barring unforeseen circumstances).



Post Edited (09-07-09 22:46)

Interesting posts about the future of vinyl, Igor. Can I ask why your blog contains a bunch of frightening comments about Jews and The Holocaust? Just curious....

Here's a particular nice one in your Jokes section:

Q. What’s the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead jew in the road?
A. The dead dog has skid marks in front of it.


Why dont you just get the fuck off this board since none of the decent people here has any interest in any comment you could possibly make on music or any other topic?



Post Edited (09-07-09 23:58)

Quote

Here's a particular nice one in your Jokes section:

Q. What’s the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead jew in the road?
A. The dead dog has skid marks in front of it.

Glad you liked it. Don't forget to sign the guestbook as you leave.

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Why dont you just get the fuck off this board since none of the decent people here has any interest in any comment you could possibly make on music or any other topic?

You speak for every poster on this board, do you?

Kindly point out what rule I have violated on this board. Otherwise, I suggest you fuck off.

wow...
personally, i'm less offended by you "weblog" (here's a few other good ones: "the holocaust is a mere footnote of history", "i do not believe that a lesbian can experience love towards a woman in the same way that a heterosexual experiences love towards a member of the opposite sex" - i live in kansas, i've heard much worse than that when i go to a bar) than by your telling nosepail to fuck off.... he may not speak for everyone, but he does speak for me (and i rarely post here, by the way, but read every day, and have contributed reviews here)...
why don't you go back to looking at those pictures of eels inserted into rectums you just happend to find and post on your "weblog"...
here's another quote, which accompanies said photo...
"As for male homosexuality being about “falling in love,” give me a break."

fuck off, igor...

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i live in kansas, i've heard much worse than that when i go to a bar

Sounds like I should move to Kansas.

Igor,

If you actually cared about what's appropriate to this board you wouldn't have bothered to respond, let alone re-post/quote the comments.

To everyone else,

Igor's kind lusts for attention, and to feel persecuted. Let's just drop the whole thing. If he doesn't have the self-control to shut up, that's his problem. Let's not fuel it.



Post Edited (09-08-09 01:49)

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If you actually cared about what's appropriate to this board you wouldn't have bothered to respond, let alone re-post/quote the comments.

I don't understand. What are you referring to?

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Igor's kind lusts for attention,

Don't we all?

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and to feel persecuted.

I think you have me confused for a jew.

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Let's just drop the whole thing.

I'm not the one pursuing this.

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If he doesn't have the self-control to shut up, that's his problem.

It's a message board. Why should I "shut up" on a message board?

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Let's not fuel it.

Don't you think you're fueling "it," whatever "it" is, by telling people not to fuel it?

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Interesting posts about the future of vinyl, Igor. Can I ask why your blog contains a bunch of frightening comments about Jews and The Holocaust?

Ha, "The Holocaust," capitalized not just once but twice. How reverent of you.

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Just curious....

Why don't you ask me that on my blog where it's appropriate rather than trying to hijack this thread?



Post Edited (09-08-09 01:04)

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You speak for every poster on this board, do you?

I checked out your blog. Nosepail speaks for me.

The joke itself did it for me. Ethos, your friend in rhetoric.

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Nosepail speaks for me.

And me.

(Psst! Don't tell him Ira's Jewish!)

MrFab wrote:

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> Nosepail speaks for me.

And me.

And me.

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(Psst! Don't tell him Ira's Jewish!)

Or that Nile is too.

Or that one of my former professors escaped that little bump in history, the Holocaust.

I don't even need to check out the blog. The joke that Nosepail shared from it, along with the comments "How reverent of you," and "I think you have me confused for a jew" were all I needed.

Nosepail speaks for me, too.

And I.

I wonder how many musicians Igor refuses to listen to due to lineage?

I hope Skrewdriver sounds good on vinyl.

Those Professor Griff LP reissues will sound great.

Nah, he had other jokes on his "joke" page that pretty much rule out his listening to Griff. I think the only color in his musical tastes is probably Prussian Blue.

I was just trying to remember the kids' names: Lamb and Lynx.