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Author: Delvin
Date: 07-03-12 12:09
Bowie is alleged to have told an interviewer, "It doesn't matter who does it first. It matters who does it second." In other words, the true innovator gets overlooked by the masses ... leaving it for a canny imitator to tweak the innovator's original work, present it to a mass audience that is ready to receive & accept it, and take it to the bank.
This quote came to mind just now. I'm listening to Be Bop Deluxe's debut, Axe Victim. The album has a lot of parallels to Ziggy Stardust, in its thematic references to space travel, "rock & roll supermen," musicians and scenesters who are searching for their place and exploring their identities (sexual and other), the freaky glam girls who inspire them, and the whole campy vibe — right down to song titles like "Jet Silver and the Dolls of Venus."
Of course, if Bowie was right, Bill Nelson and his cohorts were the third ones to cover this thematic ground. Although Axe Victim got some notice, the album (and the band) never broke through to a mass audience. Which is a pity, IMO. To me, Be Bop Deluxe is the Great Overlooked Classic Rock Band.
Thoughts?
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Author: Heff
Date: 07-03-12 12:30
Even though I'm a fan of Bill Nelson's solo work, I have never bothered with Be Bop Deluxe mainly because of this snippet:
"the glam- inflected Be-Bop Deluxe and a major-label contract; that band succumbed to audience expectations and business problems, becoming an unfortunate symbol of guitar showboating and retarded creative development."
Recognize it? It from Nelson's entry in TP. I have heard some BBD and while it was ok, nothing on the order of "Flaming Desire"
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 07-03-12 14:59
I feel exactly the opposite - I love Be-Bop but have never warmed up to Nelson's solo work (and I've spent a lot of money trying).
Hmm...I have to take a drive and now I don't know whether to take a Be-Bop record with me or a Bowie CD.
Post Edited (07-03-12 15:14)
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 07-03-12 15:12
Nelson himself reviews the 40th anniversary edition of Ziggy Stardust in the July issue of Classic Rock (Rush on the cover, thereby ensuring that few on this board will give it a second glance). He doesn't say anything about doing it first - indeed, he has nothing but praise for the album:
"Ziggy Stardust struck a chord with those of us raised on 50s rock 'n' roll, 60s psychedelia and counter-cultural hedonism. My own art student background responded enthusiastically to the concept, the art-pop/pop-art element, the theatrical fin de siecle decadence, the faint electrical crackle of science fiction and, of course, Mick Ronson's cosmic blues showboating."
He praises Ronson a lot, in fact, calling him "brilliantly gifted."
He concludes:
"The main songwriting gems for me are much the same as they were back then: "Starman," "Ziggy Stardust," "Hang On to Yourself" and "Suffragette City." These, above all other tracks on the album, prove the most enduring. [Personally I'd add the loopy but thrilling "Moonage Daydream."] Some of the music comes across as a frozen product of its era, even though it virtually created that era to begin with. Other aspects transcend the period brilliantly and shine way beyond it. Like so much of David Bowie's work, it thrives on its glorious contradictions."
Curious, Nelson also writes this, after describing how he rode the glam wave, "my guitar case in one hand and her makeup bag in the other":
"Bizarrely, I'm still struggling to shake off the blessing/curse of Axe Victim after all these years. (Hmm...perhaps that means I'm Ziggy.)"
I'd also argue that Drastic Plastic anticipated new wave (and Scary Monsters) by a few years.
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Author: erikalbany
Date: 07-03-12 15:12
I never quite got BBD, but I *really* liked the Nelson album Chimera (1983). "Another Day Another Ray of Hope" still sounds pretty good to me.
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Author: totaji
Date: 07-03-12 15:58
4th. 1.Marc Bolan, 2.David Bowie,3. Be Bop Deluxe...
All those long running British guitar acts like Be Bop are a total blind spot to me. They each have had 5 million incarnations and have covered 1 million styles (Prog, Metal, Glam...) Hawkwind is another. Wishbone Ash?
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Author: Delvin
Date: 07-03-12 16:30
> All those long running British guitar acts like Be Bop are a total blind spot to me.
Be Bop Deluxe definitely was not a long-running act. The group formed in 1972 and released Axe Victim two years later. Bill Nelson soon split up that version of the band; he brought together a whole new group of musicians, but that one didn't last long. BBD eventually recorded its second album, Futurama, with an almost completely new lineup — Nelson, drummer Simon Fox (a holdover from the short-lived second lineup) and bassist Charlie Tumahai. Keyboardist Andrew Clark joined right after the Futurama sessions, thus completing the "classic" lineup of Be Bop Deluxe.
Nelson disbanded the group in 1978, with a total of five studio albums and an excellent live album to its name. Three former members have since bid the planet goodbye. Tumahai and guitarist Ian Parkin (from the Axe Victim lineup) both died in 1995. Bassist Paul Jeffreys, from the short-lived second lineup, died in the Lockerbie bombing in 1988, along with his bride.
I like Nelson's solo stuff too, up through Chimera. After that, though, he tends to disappear up his own ass with his ambient recordings. Video clips of recent gigs with his new band, The Gentleman Rocketeers, show that his voice and his guitar playing have not been diminished by the years (even though his appearance sure has).
> "Bizarrely, I'm still struggling to shake off the blessing/curse of Axe Victim after all these
> years. (Hmm...perhaps that means I'm Ziggy.)"
Methinks the guitarist doth protest too much.
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Author: MrFab
Date: 07-03-12 17:25
Quote:
"It doesn't matter who does it first. It matters who does it second." In other words, the true innovator gets overlooked by the masses
Maybe not overlooked entirely, but initially not the big commercial superstar, e.g. Lou Reed, Dr Dre etc. did eventually make a few bucks.
Big Momma Thornton > Elvis
The Velvet Underground /Stooges > punk/alt rock
Husker Du/The Pixies > Nirvana
NWA > Vanilla Ice
Kate Bush > Tori Amos
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Author: Delvin
Date: 07-03-12 18:20
Yeah, overlooked wasn't quite the right word choice. Just less likely to reap the big rewards or recognition up front than the canny imitator.
> 1.Marc Bolan, 2.David Bowie,3. Be Bop Deluxe...
In the UK, at least, Bolan reaped some serious rewards with T. Rex.
> I'd also argue that Drastic Plastic anticipated new wave (and Scary Monsters) by a few years.
So, by that argument, BBD jumped from third (recording Axe Victim in Ziggy's brightly colored wake) to first! "Retarded creative development," huh ...
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Author: Jermoe
Date: 07-03-12 20:05
This is fun (although it doesn't ALL support Bowie's alleged quote):
The Sound > U2...wait, that's not right: U2 > The Sound > The Alarm?
The Beatles > The Monkees
The Treacherous 3/Kool Moe Dee > LL Cool J
Mission of Burma > Jawbox
The Police > The Outfield
Peter Gabriel (solo) > Bon Iver
Joy Division > Modern English/The Cure
Japan > Duran Duran
The Replacements > Goo Goo Dolls
The Sundays > The Cranberries
Modern Lovers > Violent Femmes
Wire > Elastica
Depeche Mode > Yazoo > Erasure
Ministry > Ministry
Everybody > Oasis
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 07-03-12 21:16
"Japan > Duran Duran"
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
"Peter Gabriel (solo) > Bon Iver"
Not buying this one, though. I don't hear the resemblance at all. Iver sounds like bad Elliott Smith to me.
"Joy Division > Modern English/The Cure"
Hmm...didn't the Cure start out in '78 or so, before Joy Division started releasing albums?
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Author: zoo
Date: 07-04-12 10:06
I'm a huge fan of Nelson's beginning w/ BBD's Futurama through his solo Chimera and Vistamix (a period that also includes the incredible Sound on Sound).
His solo discography is almost impossible to wrap one's mind around, with all of the singles, home projects, demos, etc. It appears these have really picked up again in the last five years or so. Of his early solo stuff, Chimera (and Vistamix, which is Chimera expanded) are the cream of the crop, along with the aforementioned Sound on Sound. There are some other great B-sides and singles to found as well, such as the amazing "Ideal Homes, " a B-side to "Do You Dream in Color?" if I'm not mistaken. There's also a lot of crap in his solo catalog. Sifting through it all can take time, but it's worth it once you find the gems and know what to avoid.
I've never warmed to Axe Victim. As Toland mentioned, Drastric Plastic is essentially a new wave record before anyone used that term, and probably the BBD album I listen to the most along w/ Modern Music.
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 07-04-12 10:31
I really like Axe Victim - I love the prog-tinged glam songwriting, and I think it's a good introduction to Nelson's Be-Bop vision. But I can also see how his insistence on filling every spare moment with a fancy guitar fill/lick/mini-solo could be annoying. I really like his tone and playing style, but even I start to get tired of it.
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Author: HollowbodyKay
Date: 07-04-12 10:46
Quote:
The Sundays > The Cranberries
Damn right. The Sundays mailed in that final album, but the debut is a classic and Blind wasn't shabby either. The Stones cover was iffy ... but it could have been worse.
The Cranberries were one of the most loathsome acts to come down the turnpike in ages and ages. Hated 'em from the get-go. In fact, my blood is beginning to boil just thinking about them.
"Let's take all of the elements that work so well with The Sundays, and somehow make a dreadful mess out of the same ingredients."
...
Someone still loves you Harriet Wheeler.
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Author: M. Johnson
Date: 07-04-12 15:05
Cranberries' "Linger" and "Dreams" seemed like pretty sweet singles to me.
Fortunately, I'd given up on contemporary music by the time they rolled around, so I didn't have the exposure to accumulate any painful loathing. "Zombie" gave it a shot though.
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Author: Aitch
Date: 07-04-12 20:03
Wire - Menswear (thanks a lot Wire)
Josef K - Franz Ferdinand (although they say The Fire Engines)
Killing Joke - Fear Factory
feedtime - Mudhoney, Babes In Toyland
The Birthday Party - The Inca Babies, Gallon Drunk
MC5 - The Streetwalking Cheetahs
The Black Lips - The Straight Arrows
Young Marble Giants - Stereolab
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Author: nosepail
Date: 07-04-12 22:30
I think the Sundays second album is their best.
Is this considered mailing it in? If so, then more mailing it in please!
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Author: HollowbodyKay
Date: 07-05-12 01:57
Quote:
Is this considered mailing it in?
I think it is. Granted, that's only the single and I was speaking more to the album as a whole. It's almost entirely forgettable in the sense that I've listened to the album a few times and the songs never made any sort of lasting impression. It's a rather mundane-sounding affair.
Given the title of that final album, I think it's fairly clear that The Sundays never intended to make another record, but might have been obliged to fulfill their contract.
As a matter of opinion, Blind is good. Reading, Writing and Arithmetic happens to be better.
Even the weakest selections from either of those albums handily thrashes anything on that final Sundays' effort.
...
Additionally, please allow me to state unequivocally that the second Stone Roses album blows chunks in a major fashion. Just in case I haven't done so this week.
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Author: Delvin
Date: 07-05-12 10:46
Definitely agree with Kay on The Sundays and the Crapberries. Someone else still loves you, Harriet Wheeler. (In fact, I have at least one friend who'd get into some severe competition with Kay and me, if the three of us guys were in a bar and Harriet walked in alone.)
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Author: erikalbany
Date: 07-05-12 12:27
Delvin wrote: "In other words, the true innovator gets overlooked by the masses ... leaving it for a canny imitator to tweak the innovator's original work, present it to a mass audience that is ready to receive & accept it, and take it to the bank."
To this I'd add: One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity.
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Author: HollowbodyKay
Date: 07-05-12 15:44
Quote:
Delvin wrote: "In other words, the true innovator gets overlooked by the masses ... leaving it for a canny imitator to tweak the innovator's original work, present it to a mass audience that is ready to receive & accept it, and take it to the bank."
Ask the Ramones about this phenomenon. They'll tell ya. Use yr Ouija.
Quote:
To this I'd add: One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity.
Yeah.
:::tosses drumstick in air, avoids interviewers, gives fans the cold shoulder, makes documentary about avoiding interviewers and giving fans the cold shoulder:::
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Author: dj45rpm
Date: 07-09-12 16:41
Actually that one could probably be changed to "Roxy Music>Japan, Duran Duran, et al"
Could probably add:
Buzzcocks>Green Day, et al.
Descendents>rest of the "pop-punk" crop from a few years back.
to the list as well.
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Author: dj45rpm
Date: 07-09-12 19:22
Joy Division/Chameleons UK>Interpol
Birthday Party>Jesus Lizard (via Scratch Acid)
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Author: dj45rpm
Date: 07-10-12 19:24
Also:
(mid-period) Cabaret Voltaire>Front 242, Skinny Puppy, et al>Nine Inch Nails
Suicide>just about every 2-man synth-pop outfit in the 80s (e.g. Soft Cell)
New York Dolls>Aerosmith
Motorhead, NWOBHM>Metallica
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