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Author: zoo
Date: 05-24-12 08:42
Michael Toland wrote in the Moog thread:
> I'm tempted to go on a rant how, as a prog lover, I think ELP represents
> everything wrong with the genre, but I'll save that for another
> thread/time & place.
Bring it! As a fellow prog lover, I'd love to read your thoughts, since ELP was the only one of the "Big 6" whose "brilliance" I never could understand. There are plenty of second tier prog bands (like VDGG, Nektar, and especially Gentle Giant) that I like much better.
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 05-24-12 11:28
Prog, as you know, is often accused of being about musical virtuosity and long, showy instrumental passages that do nothing but show off the bandmembers' skill - the equivalent of musical masturbation. (A la what the jam bands get rightfully accused of now.)
A lot of these bands are indeed guilty of that, especially live. But I'd argue that the vast majority of these bands do, in fact, write actual songs, not jams. Even Yes, who seems to get the brunt of that criticism, does write real songs - really good ones, to my mind. Sure, they indulge in the usual bandmember solo spots in concert (otherwise referred to as "bathroom breaks"), but they, and most prog acts, use their instrumental facility to write tunes that challenge themselves and their audience. Gentle Giant is another excellent example.
Most of the long songs are structured that way, with passages written to be lengthy excursions that are written out (literally or figuratively), not just set-ups for improvisation. Whether or not you find that interesting or the equivalent of musical flatulence is another matter. I'd argue that it all depends on the quality of the song itself - like the difference between Yes' "Close to the Edge" or Van Der Graaf Generator's "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" vs., well, any side of Yes' Tales of Topographic Oceans.
I would argue, however, that Emerson Lake & Palmer lives up to prog's bad press. With the exception of Greg Lake's ballads like "Lucky Man" and "From the Beginning," everything ELP does is about showing off what good musicians they are - particularly Keith Emerson. Bombastic virtuosity is the order of the day with them - Emerson wants to shove his skill right down your throat, through your kidneys and out of your urethra until you realize that he's the best goddamn keyboard player and showman in the world. (Witness his Moog solo in "Lucky Man" - once compared to a rampaging rhino.)
In my opinion, ELP is tasteless, and that's the difference. And since, at least in the 70s, they were one of the most popular prog acts and concert draws, and easily the most flamboyant, I think their tasteless musical masturbation has overshadowed a genre that, like all good rock, usually deals in honest-to-God songs. You'll note that ELP did a lot of covers, especially of classical composers - music chosen to, again, show off how good they are. Why concentrate on writing one's own tunes when the point is just to solo your brains out anyway?
Now, I know that a lot of rock fans, likely a majority, in fact, would tell me that my criticism of ELP fits all prog bands. It's all a matter of taste, of course. But to me ELP is the perfect example of technically advanced musicians following their worst instincts straight up their own excretory systems, and they've tarred and feathered the entire genre with what they represent.
I'm not arguing that no other prog bands put these mistakes into practice, mind you. But for ELP it was a matter of policy.
You may disagree, of course. I guarantee you that if I posted this same rant on a progressive rock message board, I'd be digitally shouted down by threats to my firstborn.
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Author: Delvin
Date: 05-24-12 13:08
Excellent writing, Mr. Toland.
I never listened much to ELP; I know little of their work apart from the songs that radio picked up on, and those tunes never impelled me to seek out more. The only album I ever heard all the way through was Tarkus, because one of my high-school friends shoved it down my throat (and my brother's) when we lived in Louisiana. It didn't make enough of an impression on me to want to play it a second time. My brother held onto the guy's copy for a while, but he didn't play it much either. We both forgot it when Blondie, Talking Heads, Devo and The B-52's came along.
I do enjoy "Karn Evil 9" when I hear it; "From the Beginning" bores me. But from the first time I heard "Lucky Man," I hated the song. Hated it. Just when my frustrated teenage self thought nothing on the radio could piss me off any more than all these sappy songs about falling in love or making out, along comes a song about some popular bastard who had women waiting in line at his bedroom door. In fact, when the lyrics reached the end, I thought, "I'm glad he died! Screw him!"
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Author: zoo
Date: 05-25-12 09:01
There is a HILARIOUS review on the web somewhere of Tarkus. I tried finding it yesterday with no luck. I found others that were pretty good (i.e., condescending in humorous way), but not the one I was looking for.
Anyway, another criticism of prog in general is the "fantasy" lyrics. Sure, they're present in many bands' music; however, I find a lot if it to be more philosopical in nature (especially Yes, Gentle Giant, VDGG).
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 05-25-12 09:23
You know, I've read that for years, and there are certainly bands that follow that route. But I've realized over the years that most of the prog bands I listen to don't write about wizards and hobbits and swords 'n' sorcery. Rush did a lot of science fiction stuff in their early days (and are about to take on steampunk), but most of their best stuff isn't in that vein. Even "2112" is metaphorical.
Gabriel-era Genesis are probably the poster children for that kind of lyric-writing, but I've always felt their version was more whimsical than serious, with a tip of the hat to goofy British surreal humor. Plus they balance it out with sociopolitical songs like "Get 'em Out By Friday."
Nowadays Coheed & Cambria write multi-album sci-fi superhero sagas and nobody gives them shit for being pretentious and out of touch with reality.
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Author: rebelwithoutaclue
Date: 05-25-12 09:57
humble confession here. i agree with the assessment on elp yet i always liked them and im not into the genre of prog rock.
all i can add to this defense is that there is definitely something wrong with me
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Author: Michael Toland
Date: 05-25-12 10:10
Everybody (except maybe Ira) has a taste for bombast and excess. ELP doesn't scratch that itch for me (more like irritates it), but I understand.
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Author: Delvin
Date: 05-25-12 11:23
> Everybody (except maybe Ira) has a taste for bombast and excess.
Yeah, Rush meets that need for me.
> Anyway, another criticism of prog in general is the "fantasy" lyrics.
That was my criticism of a lot of the pop music I heard on the radio as a teenager. All these fantasy lyrics about enjoying a fun, exhilarating life ... meeting the right girl, falling in love, and so on. "Girls that don't exist / Dressed in clothes I've never seen ..."
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Author: rhettlawrence
Date: 05-25-12 12:37
Thanks for unpacking that PE lyric, nose! I've never quite followed it and now I see I wasn't hearing the commas.
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Author: nosepail
Date: 05-25-12 14:24
I do like Emerson's playing on the first Rod Stewart album. But that would damning with faint praise.
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Author: STEVE
Date: 05-26-12 00:55
@ the risk of taking mrT out of context,
i think what he is saying is, ELP SUCKS.
and i agree w/him
Post Edited (05-26-12 00:59)
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